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Old 04-17-2015, 02:05 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,386 posts, read 1,560,251 times
Reputation: 946

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineBlue View Post
I don't think it's particularly persuasive to use the Cold War as leverage to justify abuses of power in the present day.
It's an honest question. If your going to use the evil empire card and say you don't care if Russia and/or China rule now asking whether or not you think it would've been better if the US lost the cold war is not an unreasonable question. Not much has really changed at the end of the day in regards to leadership in both Russia and China in how they operate so I'm taking it if you feel the US is an evil empire and are not scared by Russia and/or China running the world then you would've preferred that the US had lost the cold war.

As far as US abuses go they pale in comparison to the on going genocide the Chinese government is still engaged in with Falun Gong practitioners and forced organ harvesting. People who usually play the evil empire card in regards to the US usually lack perspective of what other countries are like and what they would do if they were the most dominate in the world instead of the US.
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,821,814 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
Honestly if the UK got into another war with Argentina I don't know if you all would win that right now.
After pondering this question carefully... the UK would crush Argentina as badly as it did the last time. The Sun, start your typewriters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
I don't know why did the UK need logistical support from the United States in the Falklands War? Or helping to deal with the IRA?
What logistical support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
A "great power" shouldn't be in that situation.
Well, start to get those notoriously troublesome F-35's off the assembly line, so that the British don't have to wait.

Last edited by Ariete; 04-17-2015 at 02:17 AM..
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,386 posts, read 1,560,251 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
After pondering this question carefully... the UK would crush Argentina as badly as it did the last time. The Sun, start your typewriters.
Honestly I'm not sure about that. The UK would have to project force there and it's questionable how well the UK could do that now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
What logistical support?
The US shared intelligence information with the UK during that war to aid them. The Soviets did the same thing with Argentina. The UK won the war on there own but the US did aid them behind the scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
Well, start to get those notoriously troublesome F-35's off the assembly line, so that the British don't have to wait.
They need the aircraft carriers first.
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Singapore
653 posts, read 744,171 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
So your trying to blame the situation on the US when it was European Union wanting to further expand that actually lead to the conflict in the first place? How typical. As far you all being dependent on Russian energy goes that is Europe's fault pure and simple. You all really should've known better.
I think you meant NATO, not EU...........
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:33 AM
 
Location: United Kingdom
969 posts, read 826,016 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
It's an honest question. If your going to use the evil empire card and say you don't care if Russia and/or China rule now asking whether or not you think it would've been better if the US lost the cold war is not an unreasonable question. Not much has really changed at the end of the day in regards to leadership in both Russia and China in how they operate so I'm taking it if you feel the US is an evil empire and are not scared by Russia and/or China running the world then you would've preferred that the US had lost the cold war.

As far as US abuses go they pale in comparison to the on going genocide the Chinese government is still engaged in with Falun Gong practitioners and forced organ harvesting. People who usually play the evil empire card in regards to the US usually lack perspective of what other countries are like and what they would do if they were the most dominate in the world instead of the U.S.
It's a poor question, premised on an absurdity, and a naive knowledge of global political trends, cocktailed with shades of the Bush doctrine dichotomy: "you're either with us, or you're with the [Chicoms]."

At the end of the day, you simply haven't a clue of the scale of destruction wrought as a result of the triumvirate of ill-conceived military interventions, diplomatic subversion, and financial sector abuses that the U.S. has generously exported to the rest of the world. It's kind of sad.
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:37 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,386 posts, read 1,560,251 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTDominion View Post
It's a poor question, premised on an absurdity and a naive knowledge of global political trends.
Dodging the issue I see...why am I not surprised?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTDominion
At the end of the day, you simply haven't a clue of the scale of destruction wrought as a result of the triumvirate of ill-conceived military interventions, diplomatic subversion/meddling, and abuses conducted via the financial sector. It's kind of sad.
So your going to compare the financial sector to actual genocide and forced organ harvesting committed by the Chinese government...again can't say I'm surprised.

Since you edited your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTDominion
cocktailed with shades of the Bush doctrine dichotomy: "you're either with us, or you're with the [Chicoms]."
Putting words in my mouth huh? Again can't say I'm surprised. What I'm getting at is you can't play the evil empire card with the US and then act like China ruling the world would be better because they are much more ****** up then the US is in what they do.

Last edited by cwa1984; 04-17-2015 at 02:47 AM..
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,386 posts, read 1,560,251 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerbalm1985 View Post
I think you meant NATO, not EU...........
It's a bit of both actually. With prospective members of the EU wanting to be in NATO as well.
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Old 04-17-2015, 03:06 AM
 
Location: United Kingdom
969 posts, read 826,016 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
So your going to compare the financial sector to actual genocide and forced organ harvesting committed by the Chinese government...again can't say I'm surprised.
Even if we go by your premise that criticizing the U.S. amounts to supporting China, it's a weak retort to claim that Washington's abuses are somehow less morally reprehensible than the genocide committed against Falun Gong.

Both express contempt for innocent civilian lives, both are motivated by greed. The only difference is that Washington's abuses are more widespread, more comprehensive and are whitewashed rather than blacked out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
Putting words in my mouth huh? Again can't say I'm surprised. What I'm getting at is you can't play the evil empire card with the US and then act like China ruling the world would be better because they are much more ****** up then the US is in what they do.
Yet, that is pretty much what your argument amounts to, as you confirm in the very same paragraph. You somehow believe that the rest of the free world is stuck in a false choice fallacy: "better the devil you know than the devil you don't".

Last edited by CTDominion; 04-17-2015 at 03:19 AM..
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Old 04-17-2015, 03:27 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,821,814 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
Honestly I'm not sure about that. The UK would have to project force there and it's questionable how well the UK could do that now.



The US shared intelligence information with the UK during that war to aid them. The Soviets did the same thing with Argentina. The UK won the war on there own but the US did aid them behind the scenes.



They need the aircraft carriers first.
No, the UK doesn't have aircraft carriers right now. They would have to lease one, if the US military is not allowed to be used in this scenario, most likely the Principe of Asturias which is in the Spanish Navy reserve. Or ask kindly France or Italy to give a hand. Italy could lend Cavour as debt-payment.
Or if you want to do it the easy way, just fire a couple of missiles on Buenos Aires, and say that the next time they will be armed with nuclear warheads. I think that'll do the trick.


Hey, come on... Intelligence sharing. Real cheap. THAT'S WHAT AN ALLIANCE IS ALL ABOUT! If your friend moves, and you help him, would you shove it in his face that "ha ha, you got logistical support from me"? Or worse, would you demand payment?
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Old 04-17-2015, 03:43 AM
 
367 posts, read 409,526 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTDominion View Post
At the end of the day, you simply haven't a clue of the scale of destruction wrought as a result of the triumvirate of ill-conceived military interventions, diplomatic subversion, and financial sector abuses that the U.S. has generously exported to the rest of the world. It's kind of sad.
It's going to be painful for a good proportion of the US citizenry unaware of what its government is doing abroad (and at home) to realize just how much big government has metastasized into their personal lives.
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