Russia threatens to stop adoptions to USA (birth, parents, foster care)
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My point is that all of the above is what you are TOLD. How do you know if any of these "stories" are actually true? Part of the problem is the fact there is no regulation. Anyone can drop of a child and give a story. You don't have to provide any records, any ID or any proof. What if it was mandatory that every child had to have an original birth certificate, medical records of the parent and ID that you are indeed the parent? How do you know how many children are dropped off by someone who is paid?
I don't have all the answers but I have a lot of questions. Why does it take 3, 4 and 5 years to adopt a child if there is such an overabundance of children that nobody wants? 5 years of red tape? Doesn't sound like an overabundance to me. It sounds like there aren't enough children. Why is it the only industry where common sense doesn't prevail?
Why do stories keep surfacing such as Guatemala and Magdalene Laundries?
I wrote about Ukraine, not Guatemala (which is presently closed to adoption) and Ireland, as I am more familiar with Ukraine. I believe this is the first time the Magdalene Laundries have been mentioned in the Adoption Forum - perhaps you might like to write more about them, if this is something you're knowledgeable about. They certainly have been in the news lately. My understanding is that the Magdalene Laundries of Ireland are now closed and have been for a good many years. They certainly were places which caused terrible pain to many, many people, but I am not that knowledgeable about them, so feel free to add more.
Each country in which orphaned children live (and that's all of them) is different, and there are extreme differences of all kinds between Ukraine, Guatemala, and Ireland. I doubt very much if there's a one-size-fits-all solution to the problems of these three countries - heck, there's not even a one-size-fits-all solution to the problems of any one of these countries.
BTW, I am also aware of an NGO which is building a home for homeless children in Guatemala, and which is raising funds from those who'd like to assist. I don't have a link handy, but it might it be of interest to you, since you appear to be especially concerned with Guatemala?
As for providing records (I assume you refer to biological parents in the bolded portion above), this would all be well and good - but will not stop the problem of children who are anonymously abandoned and whose parents cannot be identified. In Ukraine, I believe I am correct in saying that all children are issued birth certificates, with approximate birth dates if none can be verified, and "unknown" listed as parents. It is not uncommon for "unknown" to appear in place of the biological father's name on the birth certificates of children of unmarried mothers in Ukraine.
It does not take "3, 4, an 5 years to adopt a child" in Ukraine, either for Ukrainians or individuals of other nationalities who are qualified to adopt. Most adoptions can be begun and completed within a year. There are more than enough children to go around, sadly. The shortage is not one of children but of families, be those families biological and newly reunited with their children, or domestic or international adoptive families.
There IS a great need for families to adopt sibling groups, boys, older (over age four or five!) children, and children with special needs. Children in these categories exist in great numbers in Ukraine's orphanages and many, probably most, of them, are available for adoption.
I am not aware of children being dropped off to orphanages in Ukraine by someone who is paid to do so, and think it's highly unlikely that such a thing would occur there, not due to lack of corruption but simply because there would be little if any money to be made in this way and the repercussions for such action would be harsh. It may happen elsewhere, in countries with different systems, but it just doesn't fit what I know of Ukraine and how orphaned children and relinquishing parents are handled. The only similar scenario I can even remotely imagine which might occur might be if a biological parent decided for whatever reason to give up their child, and didn't want to be questioned by the authorities for whatever reason, so paid someone else to leave the child at the orphanage door. But that's a very long stretch and even if it did occur, would have nothing to do with adoption, just getting off the hook for responsibility for the child. I have never heard of this kind of thing happening in Ukraine. I do know of situations where newborns were found abandoned in fields, were left in hospitals, etc., but no money was involved in these sad cases.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 02-21-2013 at 02:15 PM..
If you think it doesn't happen in Ukraine, you are mistaken. It happens in virtually any country that allows foreign adoption. In 2004, looks like Ukraine was #6 exporter of children. I didn't have to look far for some kind of report:
This is one of many. Craig, I can see you are very entrenched in your thinking. I know I will not change your mind. I know a lot of people don't want to realize that adoption is big business, but it is.
It looks like Ukraine has put some legislation down as you mentioned, but there is so much further to go (in my opinion) and Ukraine is just one of many countries. It is a global problem.
If you think it doesn't happen in Ukraine, you are mistaken. It happens in virtually any country that allows foreign adoption. In 2004, looks like Ukraine was #6 exporter of children. I didn't have to look far for some kind of report:
This is one of many. Craig, I can see you are very entrenched in your thinking. I know I will not change your mind. I know a lot of people don't want to realize that adoption is big business, but it is.
It looks like Ukraine has put some legislation down as you mentioned, but there is so much further to go (in my opinion) and Ukraine is just one of many countries. It is a global problem.
Ukraine has A LOT of children of orphanages, which is why so many children come here from there. There are many reasons why that is, but it is not baby selling for the most part. Alcoholism, drug use, poverty, and children born with special needs are the main reasons why children are available for adoption, and there are no easy fixes to those problems.
Ukraine has A LOT of children of orphanages, which is why so many children come here from there. There are many reasons why that is, but it is not baby selling for the most part. Alcoholism, drug use, poverty, and children born with special needs are the main reasons why children are available for adoption, and there are no easy fixes to those problems.
It just isn't true. Do you know WHY Ukraine changed their legislation. It wasn't corruption that made them change it. It was the fact that there weren't enough children to meet the demand in their own country. So, why do they keep the borders open to foreigners? To get rid of the unhealthy children that are passed over by nationals. If you think Ukraine is so unique in this regard, they aren't. The same thing happens in the US. Unhealthy children remain unadopted. This is not unique to their culture.
It's a myth that Ukrainians don't want to adopt their own children. They weren't given the opportunity and the proof is in the numbers. Before the change in legislation, foreigners were adopting twice as many as nationals. After the legislation, the numbers flip flopped- in 2010 Ukrainians adopted 2,247 children, while foreigners, only 1,200. As for the children under 1 year old, the figures are 998 and 38.
So why did foreigners get preferential treatment over Ukraine nationals before the legislation? MONEY.
It just isn't true. Do you know WHY Ukraine changed their legislation. It wasn't corruption that made them change it. It was the fact that there weren't enough children to meet the demand in their own country. So, why do they keep the borders open to foreigners? To get rid of the unhealthy children that are passed over by nationals. If you think Ukraine is so unique in this regard, they aren't. The same thing happens in the US. Unhealthy children remain unadopted. This is not unique to their culture.
It's a myth that Ukrainians don't want to adopt their own children. They weren't given the opportunity and the proof is in the numbers. Before the change in legislation, foreigners were adopting twice as many as nationals. After the legislation, the numbers flip flopped- in 2010 Ukrainians adopted 2,247 children, while foreigners, only 1,200. As for the children under 1 year old, the figures are 998 and 38.
So why did foreigners get preferential treatment over Ukraine nationals before the legislation? MONEY.
Weren't enough babies that are perfectly healthy. Children with special needs and older children DO NOT get adopted domestically.
If you think it doesn't happen in Ukraine, you are mistaken. It happens in virtually any country that allows foreign adoption. In 2004, looks like Ukraine was #6 exporter of children. I didn't have to look far for some kind of report:
This is one of many. Craig, I can see you are very entrenched in your thinking. I know I will not change your mind. I know a lot of people don't want to realize that adoption is big business, but it is.
It looks like Ukraine has put some legislation down as you mentioned, but there is so much further to go (in my opinion) and Ukraine is just one of many countries. It is a global problem.
The article you cited is not current at all - it was published nine years ago, in 2004. Since then, a new authority has been formed (several years ago) to deal with Ukraine's orphanages and adoptions, and to address problems such as those discussed in the 2004 article.
As you note, additional legislation has been passed in Ukraine and a number of flaws have been remedied. Efforts continue to improve the lives of the children living in the orphanage system and to clarify and improve adoption in various ways, but obviously much remains to be done. I agree that the orphan crisis is a global problem and one with many aspects and convolutions.
Since this article is clearly outdated and does not describe current conditions, can you provide any up-to-date information about this topic?
You are welcome to whatever opinions you care to have about me and my "thinking", but I hardly think I am the one who is "entrenched", given what I know and continue to learn about this topic from current, valid and unbiased sources and individuals.
Exactly, which is the exact same problem we have in the US. So why don't we adopt our own unhealthy, disabled, etc children? There are plenty here.
There are long waiting lists of American families hoping to adopt American children with Down syndrome, but very few such American children are available for adoption. The length of that wait is one of the reasons many of these families turn to international adoption of children with DS instead.
Knowing what the lives are like for children with DS living in orphanages and mental institutions in the developing world is also a driving factor for many of these families. I can cite and document example after example of families who've successfully adopted kids with DS from other countries - children who were left in bed 24/7 in the notorious "lying down rooms", severely underfed, tied to chairs, denied life-saving heart surgery, sent to mental institutions at the age of four to seven - and who are now healthy children who are thriving, learning, growing, and loved.
None of which would have been likely had they remained in their original countries' orphanages.
Weren't enough babies that are perfectly healthy. Children with special needs and older children DO NOT get adopted domestically.
See my above post re adoption of children with Down syndrome in this country.
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