Collective bargaining rights restricted (Metlakatla, Fox: house, private schools, university)

[Marty Van Diest]

Yes, public employee union contracts should be subject to approval of a vote of the public that they serve. That would be true negotiation. As it is, the public employees negotiate for their wages with other public employees who have nothing to lose by increasing wages and benefits...and everything to gain.

It is not true negotiation.

Union negotiation with their private employers is true negotiation. But even that falls apart when the business is driven into insolvency partly by their overgenerous wage and benefit plans but then is "rescued" by the tax payer.

[Marty Van Diest]

ON the other hand...this is a pretty political thread. Might be better in the politics forum

[naturesdreams]

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
--Abraham Lincoln
The information below was sent to me and found this interesting because it all starts by stripping our "rights" from us..... but not from the ones who do it...

This would change everything and should be retroactive!

No one has been able to explain to me why young men and women serve in the U.S. Military for 20 years, risking their lives protecting freedom, and only get 50% of their pay. While politicians hold their political positions in the safe confines of the capital, protected by these same men and women, and receive full pay retirement after serving one term. It just does not make any sense.

Monday on Fox news they learned that the staffers of Congress family members are exempt from having to pay back student loans. This will get national attention if other news networks will broadcast it. When you add this to the below, just where will all of it stop?

35 States file lawsuit against the Federal Government

Governors of 35 states have filed suit against the Federal Government for imposing unlawful burdens upon them. It only takes 38 (of the 50) States to convene a Constitutional Convention.

This is an idea that we should address.

For too long we have been too complacent about the workings of Congress. Many citizens had no idea that members of Congress could retire with the same pay after only one term, that they specifically exempted themselves from many of the laws they have passed (such as being exempt from any fear of prosecution for sexual harassment) while ordinary citizens must live under those laws. The latest is to exempt themselves from the Healthcare Reform.... in all of its forms. Somehow, that doesn't seem logical. We do not have an elite congress that is above the law. I truly don't care if they are Democrat, Republican, Independent or whatever. The self-serving must stop.

Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution: "Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States."

[Milleka]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

It's a privilege to work for the people not a right and not an entitlement.

I hope this was meant tongue-in-cheek.

[Milleka]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

It's practically that way in Vermont already. People with college degrees flipping burgers or if working in their field, making little more than the people flipping burgers, because there's too few jobs (no one wants to relocate a business to such an overtaxed, over-regulated state). Employers treat workers like crap here because they know they can get away with it. And the teachers' unions here have taxed many people out of their homes and into the ground because they have so much power.

It's even worse in some other states. Ever see what happens in states like WV and KY with the mining industry and the mine workers?

Here we go again with the "evil" teachers. What the heck? Since when did the American teacher reach such an all-time low in respect? No wonder our kids act the way they do... their parents and "responsible" adults are all the time bad-mouthing us. You can't have it both ways. You can't tear down the teachers and then expect everything to go perfectly in the classroom. Can't you see that your media is coercing you? You can't believe everything you hear on Fox News.

[Milleka]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

And many do quite nicely...

OSHA and other agencies are mandated to deal with safe working conditions.

You would never know by the tremendous response to government gob postings that public employees don't receive enough pay and benefits

OSHA does not mandate how many students a teacher can have in the classroom. OSHA does not mandate how many firefighters can respond to a fire.

[Milleka]

Originally Posted by golgi1

That's a meaningless statement. Appealing to 'privilege' has nothing to do with labor rights.

For instance, if I told you that it was a privilege to work at something for unreasonable wages, would that then make it right? When it comes to labor, the notion of priveledge is abstract and meaningless. I could assign the notion of 'privilege' to anyone doing any type of work. Its a dishonest way of making an argument by appealing to an emotional trigger. Its meaningless.

Not to be hyperbolic, but to make a point, I'm sure that people used to tell slaves that it was their privilege to work for the slave owners. So called 'privelge' doesn't justify anything when it comes to labor rights.

No work is a 'right'. It never has been. However, collective bargaining is a right and always will be, precisely because limiting collective bargaining is restricting freedom.

To prohibit collective bargaining is to inhibit freedom. There is no other sane way to interpret it. For republicans to interpret it differently, is hypocritical and self serving beyond compare. "Let's not regulate anything except the ability of labor to fight for their wages and benefits". What BS.

Learn to fight for your own class, not the one which you serve.

*Stands up and cheers!* Can I do one of those whoop-whoop things they do on Springer? You nailed it my friend. Thank you so much for you eloquent explanation of what it is truly at stake.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by justNancy

So why is Congress allowed to vote for its own pay increases? Does this mean they don't work for the people?

Yeah that was a mistake, we should have required a nationwide vote for any pay raises...

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by golgi1

That's a meaningless statement. Appealing to 'privilege' has nothing to do with labor rights.

For instance, if I told you that it was a privilege to work at something for unreasonable wages, would that then make it right? When it comes to labor, the notion of priveledge is abstract and meaningless. I could assign the notion of 'privilege' to anyone doing any type of work. Its a dishonest way of making an argument by appealing to an emotional trigger. Its meaningless.

Not to be hyperbolic, but to make a point, I'm sure that people used to tell slaves that it was their privilege to work for the slave owners. So called 'privelge' doesn't justify anything when it comes to labor rights.

No work is a 'right'. It never has been. However, collective bargaining is a right and always will be, precisely because limiting collective bargaining is restricting freedom.

To prohibit collective bargaining is to inhibit freedom. There is no other sane way to interpret it. For republicans to interpret it differently, is hypocritical and self serving beyond compare. "Let's not regulate anything except the ability of labor to fight for their wages and benefits". What BS.

Learn to fight for your own class, not the one which you serve.

When it comes to the government, the benefit of the people as a whole should always come first, not some individual government employee. There's no reason the people should be forced to pay higher taxes while their own incomes are dropping, to pay for government workers to get pay increases. We're not talking about employees of private, for profit business here.

And forget about trying the marxist class warfare thing with me, I don't buy into "class" and I don't serve another "class," and I have no desire to work for others anyways. A truly free person should have a goal to be their own "employer" anyways.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Milleka

Here we go again with the "evil" teachers. What the heck? Since when did the American teacher reach such an all-time low in respect? No wonder our kids act the way they do... their parents and "responsible" adults are all the time bad-mouthing us. You can't have it both ways. You can't tear down the teachers and then expect everything to go perfectly in the classroom. Can't you see that your media is coercing you? You can't believe everything you hear on Fox News.

I've been a teacher and have worked a few times as a substitute teacher over the past few months. Most of the kids in high school here can't hardly read or do basic math. Yet the teachers are getting constant pay raises, our spending per pupil is among the highest in the nation, and people are losing their homes here because of the sky high property taxes resulting from the power the unions have in this state. If the teachers want the kind of money they're demanding here they better earn it instead of indoctrinating them with socialist ideology (something I've seen a lot of here). Myself and my brothers had to go to private schools to get a decent education. We were hit with taxes for the bad schools and tuition, and it was a struggle. I have reasons for my opinions and they didn't come from Fox. I don't own a TV and only watch it at relatives' and friends' homes, and I don't run over there to watch Fox News.