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You would hand a bunch of felons doing "hard time" guns? I would rather see them doing road work in chains or plucking strawberries, than give them guns to potentially kill our own troops. It may have worked in The Dirty Dozen, but I just am not sure about doing it in reality.
Having been a cop, as well as a soldier, I'm sure. Make 'em work (chain gangs). Keep 'em away from guns!
Soon to be followed by the State of Arizona BOOMERANG Effect, when the 2010 elections are over, people start to realize the social and economic costs of a Draconian immigration policy, and two-faced phony politicians like McCollum et al, having mined the issue for as many votes as possible, will drop it like a hot potato.
As compared to...?
Mexico?
Iraq?
Iran?
Canada?
Singapore?
England?
We have not enforced our immigration policy. All other countries will imprison you for "breaking and entering" into their countries. In some countries you will never see the light of day again. There are more than 1.6 Billion people in the world who "want a better life" -- if they really do, they need to stand up to their governments and demand it. It is not the job of the 300 million in the US to support those who will not demand a better life from their own governments. We do not have a Draconian Immigration policy. Of all the countries in the world, we have been the most open and generous. We only ask that people go through the process. Asking a visitor for their ID is standard procedure in EVERY country in the world. I travel 150,000 miles a year, I visit foreign countries all the time. I know -- as does everyone else - that I need to carry my passport with me at all times. I am neither offended nor confused if/when I am asked for it.
We have a war at our border ... I keep saying this... the people coming across the AZ border are NOT your daddy's migrant worker. This is no longer the bracero system of temp help, walking back and forth, doing day labor and then going back "home" to Mexico to raise a family. Those days are gone. The border is full of armed and dangerous cartels. They have infiltrated 70 miles in. Our Border Patrol has all but abandoned the actual border and left the Ranchers to fend for themselves.
It is no more draconian to demand permission-based entry to our country than it is for you to demand permission-based entry into your own home. The social and economic costs of a do-nothing President and Director of DHS who side with a foreign country against their own is what we will see after this election. And BTW - Mexico has always sided with our enemies in every single war in the last century. So... what does THAT tell you?
Trust me. This is not going to "drop like a hot potato." This is an all out war on the border.
Cowgirl, I'm all in favor of sending the US MARINES into Arizona to fight the cartels and coyotes. But that is not what SB 1070 is all about. If it survives judicial review, it will overwhelm local law enforcement agencies by MANDATING they spend all their time arresting busboys and motel maids, while horrible crimes such as that article describe go uninvestigated for lack of money, manpower, and expertise.
As I said 100 times, take whatever funds are intended to go into the statewide crackdown, and give them to the border counties and major metro areas instead. Form big, aggressive, well-trained, heavily armed task forces to deal with the violent felons. If that was SB 1070's mandate, I would embrace it. That would be a plan that makes perfect sense to everyone. You would see all the boycotts and ill will dry up overnight.
As for the US Marines, isn't there a little law about them operating on US soil?
And are you saying that forming a SWAT type task force to deal with illegals (even just the "violent" ones) would make the people who are against this law all warm and fuzzy? I doubt it.
Illegal is illegal, violent or not. If you don't believe that, go down the street and throw some trash out your window in front of a cop. You will be cited for a crime, even though it was not violent. Illegal is illegal.
Nearly Half of United States Considering Arizona-Style Immigration Legislation
(CNSNews.com) – Twenty-two states are now in the process of drafting or seeking to pass legislation similar to Arizona’s law against illegal immigration. This is occurring despite the fact that the Obama administration has filed a lawsuit against the Arizona law and a federal judge has ruled against portions of that law – a ruling that is now being appealed.
CNSNews.com - Nearly Half of United States Considering Arizona-Style Immigration Legislation (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/71294 - broken link)
Tone deaf in Washington. Come November the voters need to make sure Washington hears them loud and clear.
As for the US Marines, isn't there a little law about them operating on US soil?
And are you saying that forming a SWAT type task force to deal with illegals (even just the "violent" ones) would make the people who are against this law all warm and fuzzy? I doubt it.
Illegal is illegal, violent or not. If you don't believe that, go down the street and throw some trash out your window in front of a cop. You will be cited for a crime, even though it was not violent. Illegal is illegal.
1) Re sending in the Marines. I was using hyperbole to make a point, but since you asked, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 would not apply in the case of a national emergency, such as an invasion by a foreign country (isn't that what you all claim is happening?)
2) Re the SWAT-type task force. Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. If SB 1070 had been a bill designed to provide funding for a robust, armed response force to deal specifically with violent, felonious drug smugglers and human traffickers, there would have been near-unanimous support, no constitutional challanges, no boycotts.
3) "Illegal is illegal". Yes, I get that. But don't you have any sense of proportionality? You have limited funds and resources. What is the best way to use them to make a positive effect on the quality of life in Arizona? Rounding up ALL border jumpers (and having your motives questioned), or concentrating on whoever is driving up your violent crime rate (illegal immigrants or otherwise)?
These are rhetorical questions. I know you''ve made up your minds. So, deal with the consequences. Meanwhile, Peckerwoods are escaping from an Arizona prison with ridiculous ease and going on cross-country murder sprees. Charges are being dimissed against a child-raping "minister" (Warren Jeffries) because they "wouldn't get that much time anyway". He is sent back to Utah where, guess what, his conviction gets overturned! Who coulda seen that coming.
So don't lecture us about law enforcement in Arizona. You guys have a long way to go, and you are allowing yourslves to be distracted by election year politics.
When you are ready to get serious call me. I'd come out of retirement to join a border smuggler strike team.
1) Re sending in the Marines. I was using hyperbole to make a point, but since you asked, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 would not apply in the case of a national emergency, such as an invasion by a foreign country (isn't that what you all claim is happening?)
2) Re the SWAT-type task force. Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. If SB 1070 had been a bill designed to provide funding for a robust, armed response force to deal specifically with violent, felonious drug smugglers and human traffickers, there would have been near-unanimous support, no constitutional challanges, no boycotts.
3) "Illegal is illegal". Yes, I get that. But don't you have any sense of proportionality? You have limited funds and resources. What is the best way to use them to make a positive effect on the quality of life in Arizona? Rounding up ALL border jumpers (and having your motives questioned), or concentrating on whoever is driving up your violent crime rate (illegal immigrants or otherwise)?
These are rhetorical questions. I know you''ve made up your minds. So, deal with the consequences. Meanwhile, Peckerwoods are escaping from an Arizona prison with ridiculous ease and going on cross-country murder sprees. Charges are being dimissed against a child-raping "minister" (Warren Jeffries) because they "wouldn't get that much time anyway". He is sent back to Utah where, guess what, his conviction gets overturned! Who coulda seen that coming.
So don't lecture us about law enforcement in Arizona. You guys have a long way to go, and you are allowing yourslves to be distracted by election year politics.
When you are ready to get serious call me. I'd come out of retirement to join a border smuggler strike team.
We would be happy to deal with the consequences if all the out-of -staters that have no stake here would leave us alone and let us govern our state.
We have been the ones getting lectured about law enforcement in Arizona, and yes , we are a little tired of it.
So don't lecture us about law enforcement in Arizona.
Because California is the model we should follow? Perhaps Phoenix should become a "sanctuary city" like San Fran. Would that be better?
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We would be happy to deal with the consequences if all the out-of -staters that have no stake here would leave us alone and let us govern our state.
We have been the ones getting lectured about law enforcement in Arizona, and yes , we are a little tired of it.
Because California is the model we should follow? Perhaps Phoenix should become a "sanctuary city" like San Fran. Would that be better?
Well said!
Ah, San Francisco! God I wish I was there right now!
As I said before, California has its own problems, lots of them. But at least we seem to be getting along with each other these days. We're about to elect a moderate, intellegent governor (who ever wins). I'm optimistic about our future. California re-invents itself every decade. Who knows what's coming, but I bet we'll be fine.
As to butting out of Arizona's business- sorry, can't do that. Illegal immigration is a NATIONAL isue, and thanks to SB 1070 and your politicians, right now, your state is the "hot spot". I would think you would welcome well-meaning advice from all quarters.
Maybe you guys would be happier if you didn't have to listen to opposing points of view. I've read through some of your "Yahoo chorus" threads- it's pretty painful, and it's clear that when everyone is singing the same hymn, no body is learning anything.
It is going to take all of us working together to forge workable solutions to all our problems, including illegal immigration.
California has its own problems, lots of them. But at least we seem to be getting along with each other these days.
Yeah. "These days" are the key words, I guess, since the L.A. riots are long ago history, right?
Actually, most people in Arizona get along well with others in Arizona. There isn't much strife, really. Heck, even most of the protestors were from out of state.
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We're about to elect a moderate, intellegent governor
I didn't know a "moderate, intellegent" governor was running in CA. I guess anyone is better than Davis and The Governator....
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I'm optimistic about our future.
Did you know that California has a worse unemployment rate than Arizona? Significantly worse. Just thought I'd throw that out there....
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Illegal immigration is a NATIONAL issue
I agree. However, I believe SB 1070 is a state's issue, as well. I believe in state's rights, just as the "founding fathers" did.
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I would think you would welcome well-meaning advice from all quarters.
I question whether anything you have said thus far is either "well-meaning" or "advise". But this is ARIZONA, and not CALIFORNIA, so I don't really care what Californians think of our laws, either....
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Maybe you guys would be happier if you didn't have to listen to opposing points of view. I've read through some of your "Yahoo chorus" threads- it's pretty painful, and it's clear that when everyone is singing the same hymn, no body is learning anything.
So we are only "learning" if we are listening to you? Are you listening to "us"? The majority of America agrees with 1070 and almost half the states are in the process of drafting similar laws....
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It is going to take all of us working together to forge workable solutions to all our problems, including illegal immigration.
Or just some folks with guts enough to enforce the current laws. Also, why work with the "illegal Immigrants"? They broke the law, they need to go home and come back the legal, right way.
It is going to take all of us working together to forge workable solutions to all our problems, including illegal immigration.
Yes, I'm sure we can all work together, as long as "we" all adhere to the politically correct hogwash that a relatively small but oh so very vocal segment of our society have forced upon us all. I will take good old common sense over political correctness any day. The foundations of PC might have been well intentioned, but it has turned into a joke when we have illegals protesting in our streets, and it is viewed as their right to do so. They are ILLEGALS!
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