Why would you be against the Medical Marijuana prop? (Phoenix: transfer, tax)

[bluenoter]

Does anybody not care one way or the other?

This marijuana topic is like gay marriage. It's just tedious and boring.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

My point was, there is a reason for that. The process in place has at some point looked at pot and declared something about it: it's not legal, it's not safe. If the process that is in place wants to revisit that, by all means! But just because you disagree with what the process declared does not mean that we should make a special exception and circumvent the process.
Let the process that is in place for all drugs be the decider.



Should I point out all the logical fallacies in your posts, and say, "I'll debate and converse with you only when you can use logic and reason correctly"? That's essentially what you are telling me. I also don't appreciate your (wrong) assuptions about what I know (or don't know) about this issue.



Honestly, it's statements like this that don't belong on C-D. Because YOU don't BELIEVE I have enough knowledge on the subject, I should just shut up? Who made you the pot god? How do YOU know what I do or do not know?
Honestly, it's comments like yours that are not meaningful and productive.

Exactly! This seems to be a tactic that's now used to stifle any debate on a subject that contains any (dare I say) "liberal" subject matter. Why personally attack someone who disagrees with an opinion or thought on the matter instead of using rational debate and facts to back up whichever position is held?
In many states there is a big push on for states rights, Montana being one. If bypassing the DEA threat to pharmacists is the objective then set up stores like they have for liquor in many states (state stores) closely regulated etc.

[JAinAZ]

Originally Posted by kdog

Pot deaths? How? You can drink yourself to death in one sitting. However, you can't smoke yourself to death. It's not poisonous like alcohol.

Precisely my point, kdog. Alcohol has a built in safety switch; you drink too much, you either pass out or die. You aren't out driving your car and endangering me and my kids. I know people still drink and drive and kill people, but at least many of the drunks pass out. Dopers high on pot can smoke as much as they want and still "function". I DO NOT want to be on the road with them.

Years ago, I had to work with a couple of guys that thought they could "function" while high. It was quite scary having to use power tools along side of them. They kept telling me pot doesn't affect them, too, but it was obvious that it did. I still recall vividly a scary trip down the NYS Thruway when my car was broken down and I had to hitch a ride home with one of these guys. He toked up as he was driving. Knowing what I do now, and being older, I would have told him to drop me off on the side of the road. You will never convince me that pot does not affect your ability to drive and function.

[dintymoore]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

Should all drugs be legal?

It depends on who you ask.

I personally don't want a government that decides what "anything" I can do to my body. I think it creates more problems than it attempts to solve, along with massive corruption. It feels like Big Brother telling me what I can and cannot do, and I just don't want that type of government.

Originally Posted by Newsboy

Isn't MARINOL already legal? And isn't it the same thing without all the potential side effects? So why do you NEED medicinal pot?...

Marijuana patients claim that Marinol is not near as effective. Man-made things aren't always better than things found in nature.

In the end, I think the only "drug policy" that means anything comes from the family. If you show kids that there's better ways of living, that they aren't insignificant and can accomplish a lot, that will get farther than anything else.

[roundball]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

Isn't MARINOL already legal? And isn't it the same thing without all the potential side effects? So why do you NEED medicinal pot?

Marinol only has THC in it.

Cannabis has many terpenoids, flavonoids, and cannabinoids ,besides THC, with proven therapeutic value.

It's really apples to oranges. Marinol in not even close to a viable substitute.

[pjg66]

Originally Posted by GavinC

Even though I am not a marijuana user, nor could I be even if I WANTED to (as I am subject to Federal drug testing due to my job), I feel that Government's efforts of prohibition of this substance that is quite popular among the vast majority of people is silly. As far as it's use, medical and/or recreational, it is apparently as common as people having an alcoholic drink!

Amazingly enough, better than 50% (I think around 53% or so) of all Americans feel that marijuana should be as legal as alcohol and treated the same. Politicians don't go with what the people want... they do whatever the hell they please assuming they are acting "in the public's best interest". Both political parties act in unison and are in agreement for different reasons! Republicans think that marijuana use is immoral and some sort of sin against Jesus or something... and Democrats feel that people are just too stupid to think for themselves so we have to do it FOR them!

Let's talk about the stigma and bottom lines of it all. Nancy Reagan "Just say no" (and saying this as her secret service agents and doctors are seeing to her various prescription drugs). Honestly, marijuana is less harmful than alcohol but was conveniently added into the "War on drugs". The really stupid thing (that has been pointed out) is how with marijuana NOT being illegal and on the black market, your teenage child would play holy hell in obtaining it and have it about impossible as it is for them to obtain a six-pack of beer... currently they can EASILY obtain marijuana much more easily than they can get their evil little mitts on a six-pack of beer. Why is this? Because alcohol is closely regulated, taxed to high heaven and the laws are stringent on sale to minors. It is just not feasible or profitable for alcohol to be on the black market to any extent.

If you were to legalize marijuana and treat it just the same as alcohol:

- You would ELIMINATE the black market and it would no longer be profitable or feasible for a criminal element to be making money on it.

- The taxes you would collect are OFF THE CHART! It would take a huge chunk out of that national debt instead of adding to it with "The war on drugs".

- You would certainly upset America's youth, since THEN the damn stuff is just as hard to get your hands on as that six-pack of beer if you are a minor!

- Prisons are big business in America, eating up taxpayer dollars but there are those that turn a nice buck out of our prison system. Simple marijuana possession gets you a stay in prison and will obviously be detracting from you being a normal productive working enterprising individual--- Go ask Tommy Chong! hahaha You would eliminate a percentage of our prison population that if not for being incarcerated for having the evil marijuana, would be working, tax-paying productive people.


Now let's look at this from a little DIFFERENT point of view:

- We, the government have spent HUGE money on this "War on drugs" and because we can't admit to making a mistake after this much time, hype, money and effort has gone into this (marijuana) portion of the project, there is NO WAY we can stop now! We won't let you down, Nancy!---"Just Say No"!

- We, the pharmaceutical companies HATE marijuana! We want it as illegal as it can get because marijuana use apparently eliminates a portion of our own legal dope that we are pushing on TV commercials each and every day and what REALLY pisses us off is that there are no side effects like when you take our product that induces nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, cramps, etc., etc.! What if this costs us money damnit!!!???? Oh well, it's a good thing we have the politicians in our back pockets with our lobbyists so legal marijuana will never happen if WE can help it!

Substance use and abuse is common in our society and I believe in allowing people to think for themselves and use common sense. Drug abuse seems to be OKAY in our society, as long as you are buying it from a government condoned drug dealer, such as Pfizer or Merck! Legalize it, tax it, and administer laws that treat marijuana just the same as alcohol and BE DONE WITH IT!
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]

Great post. Full of so much common sense and truth.

During the roaring 60's and 70's I knew a lot of people who regularly used pot, and they were far from the typical "potheads" that the anti-marijuana crowd loves to point to. Doctors, lawyers, college professors, other professionals. All who had successful careers, and pot didn't seem to detract at all from their standing as productive citizens.

Sure, it can be detrimental to some, and there's no denying it. There's a lot of legal things that are like that. Why should some of these things be illegal, while others are legal? I think it has been mainly political considerations that have determined the difference.

Marijuana should be legalized, regulated, and taxed, with extremely strong penalties against driving under the influence. And if this is done, the sky will not fall.

It's amazing the hypocrisy of these folks who want the government off our backs yet support government intrusion into what we ingest into our bodies. Evidently it's okay to poison ourselves with alcohol, but marijuana is a no-no.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by pjg66

It's amazing the hypocrisy of these folks who want the government off our backs yet support government intrusion into what we ingest into our bodies. Evidently it's okay to poison ourselves with alcohol, but marijuana is a no-no.

They only want government out of our lives when it comes to their favorite key issues. When it comes to things like marijuana, they start rambling on about how bad it is, so it must be banned and stopped. Unfortunately, what they don't realize is that no matter how much the government is called upon to ban these vices, they will NEVER be stopped.

I consider the issue of banning marijuana the same as banning other things, such as guns, prostitution, gambling, etc. If people desire these things, they will still find a way to get them, only it will be through the black market ... and that creates a whole new set of problems.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by pjg66

Great post. Full of so much common sense and truth.

During the roaring 60's and 70's I knew a lot of people who regularly used pot, and they were far from the typical "potheads" that the anti-marijuana crowd loves to point to. Doctors, lawyers, college professors, other professionals. All who had successful careers, and pot didn't seem to detract at all from their standing as productive citizens.

Sure, it can be detrimental to some, and there's no denying it. There's a lot of legal things that are like that. Why should some of these things be illegal, while others are legal? I think it has been mainly political considerations that have determined the difference.

Marijuana should be legalized, regulated, and taxed, with extremely strong penalties against driving under the influence. And if this is done, the sky will not fall.

It's amazing the hypocrisy of these folks who want the government off our backs yet support government intrusion into what we ingest into our bodies. Evidently it's okay to poison ourselves with alcohol, but marijuana is a no-no.

Now this is exactly what I think should happen. Unfortunately every proposed law goes one of 3 ways, uphold the outright ban, unfettered/uncontrolled access or uncontrolled access via the farce of "medicinal" use.
If they put up a law that clearly set up many of the same rules as booze then I'd be inclined to click the yes box. Until such a time as this happens a no vote will have to be marked.
On edit: In the statement above I'm not challenging the "medicinal" properties of MJ, I agree it can work for many. I do however challenge the "medicinal" programs that provide it as shams put in place to circumvent existing laws by any means available.

[LexusNexus]

I don't support any policy that favors the pothead or makes it easier to be a pothead.

[JAinAZ]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

They only want government out of our lives when it comes to their favorite key issues. When it comes to things like marijuana, they start rambling on about how bad it is, so it must be banned and stopped. Unfortunately, what they don't realize is that no matter how much the government is called upon to ban these vices, they will NEVER be stopped.

I consider the issue of banning marijuana the same as banning other things, such as guns, prostitution, gambling, etc. If people desire these things, they will still find a way to get them, only it will be through the black market ... and that creates a whole new set of problems.

Last time I checked, pot was not protected in the constitution, nor prostitution or gambling................