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Old 10-03-2018, 08:40 AM
 
381 posts, read 344,792 times
Reputation: 780

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There were floods of calls in support of this law. Normally democrats vote in a block do not leave the camp. Anyone watching current events should be aware of this.

 
Old 10-03-2018, 08:56 AM
 
444 posts, read 322,089 times
Reputation: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
Means that you're not locked into an ideological mindset and vote accordingly with your own "camp". If anything a moderate imo closely resembles an independent who votes on issues in a way that doesn't correspond to either sides of the political spectrum.
Can you name a current Democratic member of the Senate who is a moderate in your view?
 
Old 10-03-2018, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,940 posts, read 1,813,499 times
Reputation: 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgustav View Post
Can you name a current Democratic member of the Senate who is a moderate in your view?
Manchin is more moderate, but he's center-left.
Collins/Murkowski are moderates but they're both center-right.

If the Senate was full of "moderates" a lot would get done.
 
Old 10-03-2018, 11:25 AM
 
444 posts, read 322,089 times
Reputation: 512
Manchin is in the Democrat party and voted against all of the 3 Obamacare repeal/replace plans along with every member of the Democrat party. He did vote in support of the Gorsuch confirmation with 2 other Democrat senators in red states. He has not indicated he will support the Kavanaugh confirmation to this point. I don't see many independent votes on important issues where he is in odds with the Democratic majority.
Collins and Murkowski are not in the Democratic party but really should be given their voting records. Flake is another Republican senator who votes against the grain and is probably working on his future career as a Republican commentator for CNN or MSNBC at this point.
 
Old 10-05-2018, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,940 posts, read 1,813,499 times
Reputation: 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgustav View Post
Manchin is in the Democrat party and voted against all of the 3 Obamacare repeal/replace plans along with every member of the Democrat party. He did vote in support of the Gorsuch confirmation with 2 other Democrat senators in red states. He has not indicated he will support the Kavanaugh confirmation to this point. I don't see many independent votes on important issues where he is in odds with the Democratic majority.
Collins and Murkowski are not in the Democratic party but really should be given their voting records. Flake is another Republican senator who votes against the grain and is probably working on his future career as a Republican commentator for CNN or MSNBC at this point.
You're so far off in the wilderness you can't even figure it out. You think Flake is a RINO? Flake is VERY conservative. More so than McCain was... Get your mindset straight.

The point of reference is NOT from the right. If it is... then nobody but the freedom caucus will be true "Republicans" for you.
 
Old 10-05-2018, 10:32 AM
 
444 posts, read 322,089 times
Reputation: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
You're so far off in the wilderness you can't even figure it out. You think Flake is a RINO? Flake is VERY conservative. More so than McCain was... Get your mindset straight.

The point of reference is NOT from the right. If it is... then nobody but the freedom caucus will be true "Republicans" for you.
Jeff Flake is hardly in the mold of a Mike Lee or Jim Jordan in voting as a conservative. If he was, he would still be running for his Senate seat. McSally isn't a conservative either, but is more likely to vote with the majority of Republicans than Flake would.

https://www.conservativereview.com/n...lake-fakes-it/

If you are interested in voting for a Progressive, Sinema will provide that for you and isn't likely to be voting nonpartisan given the control Chucky Schumer has over Democratic senators.
 
Old 10-05-2018, 10:56 AM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,044 posts, read 12,267,795 times
Reputation: 9838
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
You're so far off in the wilderness you can't even figure it out. You think Flake is a RINO? Flake is VERY conservative. More so than McCain was... Get your mindset straight.

The point of reference is NOT from the right. If it is... then nobody but the freedom caucus will be true "Republicans" for you.
Flake isn't "VERY conservative", but I wouldn't quite paint him as a RINO or liberal. I see him trying to be more like McCain was: compromising with both sides of the aisle, which in many cases is actually a positive move, but not always. He made a big blunder by requesting another FBI investigation on Kavanaugh (who has already gone through 6 FBI probes). Flake isn't a staunch conservative or right ringer by any means.
 
Old 10-05-2018, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,940 posts, read 1,813,499 times
Reputation: 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
Flake isn't "VERY conservative", but I wouldn't quite paint him as a RINO or liberal. I see him trying to be more like McCain was: compromising with both sides of the aisle, which in many cases is actually a positive move, but not always. He made a big blunder by requesting another FBI investigation on Kavanaugh (who has already gone through 6 FBI probes). Flake isn't a staunch conservative or right ringer by any means.
Just because Flake has decided to go the extra mile for certain issues ("issues" meaning, not even the laws that conflict with his very own fundamental beliefs, but rather the process in which the way he wants things does in his own view) that happens to be on the same boat that Democrats were on doesn't make him "less conservative". His views and beliefs are still very conservative (economic, political, and social issues...) and there's no room for debate with him on those fundamental issues. Same as if you try to debate a very liberal person such as Schumer (who's not quite hard left, but still very left)... you're not going to change his mind.

Painting either of them as RINO or DINO just says how in the ditch you are with your own respective camps was my point.

Or heck, just look at how Sinema is considered "progressive" to jgustav. Lol if Sinema is "progressive" given her voting record in the past decade, then what will the real progressives (Harris, Sanders, Warren for ex) be to him? Hitler?

Last edited by man4857; 10-05-2018 at 04:53 PM..
 
Old 10-05-2018, 08:39 PM
 
444 posts, read 322,089 times
Reputation: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857
Or heck, just look at how Sinema is considered "progressive" to jgustav. Lol if Sinema is "progressive" given her voting record in the past decade, then what will the real progressives (Harris, Sanders, Warren for ex) be to him? Hitler?
Maybe you will figure it out someday, but almost all Democrats have been strong supporters of the Progressive movement since Obama came into power. Sinema does not have any type of moderate voting record in the House her Liberty score is 9%, lower than both Kamala Harris and Nancy Pelosi. Joe Manchin indicates he will vote for Kavanaugh today, after Collins indicated how she will vote, and immediately lost support from a couple of left wing Super PACs MoveOn and Priorities USA. This is not the Democrat party of 20 plus years ago where they had a number of moderate members.

https://www.conservativereview.com/scorecard/
 
Old 10-06-2018, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Arizona
1,665 posts, read 2,947,523 times
Reputation: 2384
If sinema wins the state of Arizona and the country will suffer be cause she is a far left democrat in disguise.
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