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And are the Phils on the up? I haven't heard much about them but let's hope so...still Manila can only dream about competing with Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, even Bangkok. I think even Ho Chi Minh might begin to overtake Manila if it doesn't get it's act together. Despite being such a massive megacity it doesn't feature highly on the Asian stage.
Manila has tremendous potential. But, I personally feel what really holds is back among foreigner perceptions, is how scummy Manila can be in the areas that foreigners see and spend time in.
Generally speaking, the majority of hotels are in the Ermita/Malate area of Manila, which is Scum Central for mothers gambling with their naked children hovering around them, constantly encouraged their naked kids to go harass a foreigner for more TONGITS (a Filipino gambling game) money. You also get middle aged Filipino men in drag, deep voice, harrassing foreigner walking by. You get more guys following around trying to sell sex, drugs, etc. It goes on and on and on and on with Manila.
Once you get out of Manila, the Philippines is great! But, for most travelers, the introduction to Manila, really wears them down quickly!!!
If the authorities could clean up the streets of Malate/Ermita, where all the foreigners get their hotel rooms and try to walk around, I think it would be a huge start in the right direction.
I'm a fan of the Philippines, only because I always visit and quickly get out of Manila. There is also a ton of interesting areas like Makati, etc. Best to just get a taxi and head directly for the malls. Almost any walking around anywhere in Manila, and you can almost always expect to be harrassed or bothered as a foreigner on a street. In the malls, however, everyone leaves you alone.
If a person can explore a bit without being worn down from the experience, there is a lot of really great things to see and do in Manila! I actually would like the city a whole lot more, if I could only walk around Ermita/Malate in peace without harassment.
In short, if there was some massive public works campaign that just educated Manila locals that they really need to leave foreigners alone when walking down the street. Don't follow them, don't tell their kids to follow them, etc. It's quite a contrast to somewhere like Davao, where they must have those types of campaigns, as whenever I've been down there, locals will instantly feel ashamed and embarrassed to see their locals doing anything Manila-like, and quickly reprimand the harasser.
The topic asked about where I would rather live, and since I work for myself and basically an enjoyable safe environment and a stable internet connection and mail/parcel service is what I'd need, KL seems like the obvious choice between the two for me. That being said, I wouldn't be too keen on staying very long in either.
Yes, that is the topic.
Which makes it a bit more subjective. If the topic were, 'where is the best place for a young MBA to jump-start his international business career', it sounds like Manila is the place (of the two choices).
But, yeah, the question is a bit more than just that. So, no real 'end of discussion' yet on that matter.
Figured I'd reiterate a bit. It's a country of 28 million in a part of the world that's generally pretty poor. The metro area for KL is about 6 million in an area that has megacities that are closer to 20 million. Singapore punches more above its weight, KL punches somewhat above its weight. Does that make more sense now?
Singapore has industries where it can claim to be #1 (at least in its region) in, notwithstanding its size, so "punching above its weight" analogy applies to Singapore. Same with Rotterdam and Zurich in Western Europe. They are small but are #1 in certain major industries. Being small alone does not mean it punches above its weight. KL is small but is not #1 in anything of industrial significance so it does not share the same attributes as Singapore. Both have nice airports though.
Manila has tremendous potential. But, I personally feel what really holds is back among foreigner perceptions, is how scummy Manila can be in the areas that foreigners see and spend time in.
Generally speaking, the majority of hotels are in the Ermita/Malate area of Manila, which is Scum Central for mothers gambling with their naked children hovering around them, constantly encouraged their naked kids to go harass a foreigner for more TONGITS (a Filipino gambling game) money. You also get middle aged Filipino men in drag, deep voice, harrassing foreigner walking by. You get more guys following around trying to sell sex, drugs, etc. It goes on and on and on and on with Manila.
Once you get out of Manila, the Philippines is great! But, for most travelers, the introduction to Manila, really wears them down quickly!!!
If the authorities could clean up the streets of Malate/Ermita, where all the foreigners get their hotel rooms and try to walk around, I think it would be a huge start in the right direction.
I'm a fan of the Philippines, only because I always visit and quickly get out of Manila. There is also a ton of interesting areas like Makati, etc. Best to just get a taxi and head directly for the malls. Almost any walking around anywhere in Manila, and you can almost always expect to be harrassed or bothered as a foreigner on a street. In the malls, however, everyone leaves you alone.
If a person can explore a bit without being worn down from the experience, there is a lot of really great things to see and do in Manila! I actually would like the city a whole lot more, if I could only walk around Ermita/Malate in peace without harassment.
In short, if there was some massive public works campaign that just educated Manila locals that they really need to leave foreigners alone when walking down the street. Don't follow them, don't tell their kids to follow them, etc. It's quite a contrast to somewhere like Davao, where they must have those types of campaigns, as whenever I've been down there, locals will instantly feel ashamed and embarrassed to see their locals doing anything Manila-like, and quickly reprimand the harasser.
Sounds like much of SEA, except for the crime part. I've never felt unsafe anywhere in SEA, at least from crime (traffic's another story), but being hassle is just part of the experience. I suppose the tourists attracts these types, I doubt they'd choose to locate hotels in the less desirable parts of town, unless you're speaking of the cheaper joints. Manila itself seems to have little to recommend - maybe Intramuros, but you might as well go to Spain. The Phils in general interests me somewhat, the idea of a Catholic Asian country seems a bit of a novelty (although I've seen parts of Vietnam and Sri Lanka that are dominated by Catholics). Tropical beaches are nothing new to me but still nice, I'd enjoy the jungle and mountains and whatnot.
Manila has tremendous potential. But, I personally feel what really holds is back among foreigner perceptions, is how scummy Manila can be in the areas that foreigners see and spend time in.
Generally speaking, the majority of hotels are in the Ermita/Malate area of Manila, which is Scum Central for mothers gambling with their naked children hovering around them, constantly encouraged their naked kids to go harass a foreigner for more TONGITS (a Filipino gambling game) money. You also get middle aged Filipino men in drag, deep voice, harrassing foreigner walking by. You get more guys following around trying to sell sex, drugs, etc. It goes on and on and on and on with Manila.
Once you get out of Manila, the Philippines is great! But, for most travelers, the introduction to Manila, really wears them down quickly!!!
If the authorities could clean up the streets of Malate/Ermita, where all the foreigners get their hotel rooms and try to walk around, I think it would be a huge start in the right direction.
Unlike Bangkok, Manila can survive without tourists because of its commercial and industrial base.
Davao really has to mind its manners as it has less to offer industrially outside of agriculture.
Unlike Bangkok, Manila can survive without tourists because of its commercial and industrial base.
Davao really has to mind its manners as it has less to offer industrially outside of agriculture.
I'm pretty sure Bangkok's economy is bigger than Manila's even when you take away tourism. Finance, technology, medicine, manufacturing.etc. Don't know where you get this idea Manila is more important than KL and BKK when these cities are far more important.
Sounds like much of SEA, except for the crime part. I've never felt unsafe anywhere in SEA, at least from crime (traffic's another story), but being hassle is just part of the experience.
It's on a different level in Manila though.
I've never felt unsafe in Bangkok, Saigon, Kuala Lumpur, etc. But, Manila feels a bit more like South America with the security issues. For example, in front of McDonalds or Wendys or whatever fastfood restaurant, it is quite common to see an armed guard with a huge gun and bulletproof vest manning the door. You'd never see that in Hanoi or Yangon, but you'll see it in Manila.
In general, in the other SE Asian countries, they might try to 'talk you into something'. For example, Bangkok locals might try to convince you some tourist site or restaurant is closed, and try to bring you to another one. If you agree to it, than the locals might make a little money off of you. In Manila, they'd just flat out rob you though - i.e. more like American or Latin American crime in that regard.
So, in short, it's not just 'being hassled', it's on a bit other level. Another example, in Bangkok, some kids might ask you for money, but in Manila, the kids might surround you and actually literally put their hands right into your pockets. Than you have to decide how you're going to handle that situation. In Bangkok, they'd stop themselves and go away before taking it to that level.
In short, much different than the 'typical issues' in SE Asia. I'm not saying that a person WILL experience crime in Manila, but you just have to be 'on the lookout' all the time of your surroundings, much like a person would who visits any large city in the United States or Brazil or somewhere of that nature.
However, if a person was actually living in Metro Manila, they'd know where to avoid altogether to avoid those situations. But, I'm just giving those examples, as many foreign visitors to Manila, end up in Malate/Ermita in downtown Manila, and do see, experience, and view such incidents during their visit.
People would've chose KL over Manila if they're considering a better standard of living development, etc, but agrees with most people on how fun Manila is so it really depends on what you are seeking. I've been living in KL for 2 years and can be said that im totally sick of it, so i think i would go for Manila.
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Originally Posted by The Postman
I'm pretty sure Bangkok's economy is bigger than Manila's even when you take away tourism. Finance, technology, medicine, manufacturing.etc. Don't know where you get this idea Manila is more important than KL and BKK when these cities are far more important.
What you described there can be proved online statistics (global city, commercial centre, GDP)
(what totally surprises me though how important Jakarta is even compared to Bangkok)
Metro Manila generates less importance compared to Jakarta, Bangkok and KL. But again these are just online based rankings, though it describes what Bangkok actually offer beside its tourism and also how important its neighbor compared to Manila. But even with this ranking it doesn't show which city offer more cash than the other, Manila probably offers greater fortune for many compared to the others considering its finance based industry.
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That's what happens when one gets drunk with Mahatir's cool aid. Back in the 80s and 90s, he blabbered about how KL and Langkawi would become financial centers and how Malaysia would be a big player in the auto industry. Fast forward 20 years later, Singapore is #1 in finance and telecoms, Manila is #1 in BPO and shared services, Bangkok is #1 in auto and now Jakarta will be #1 in consumer. These cities are major global players. KL on the other hand is a marginal player except in rubber. Sounds like a cool place for an expat to build a career.
Indonesia's rapid economic growth would be the main factor, 22% of Asia's expat that receive above 250k dollar live in Jakarta! But there's been a new policy on accepting expat since unemployment is still a big problem for the country, so the number of expat in Jakarta is very likely to decline as its shown this year.
Oh please BPO companies and MNCs shared services are more likely to locate in Manila than Jakarta, Bangkok and KL so there out the window does the whole "less importance" pronouncement. Outside of Singapore none of the ASEAN cities are really global cities but some are major players in certain industries.
People would've chose KL over Manila if they're considering a better standard of living development, etc, but agrees with most people on how fun Manila is so it really depends on what you are seeking. I've been living in KL for 2 years and can be said that im totally sick of it, so i think i would go for Manila.
Are you single? If so, than right away, Manila would be better.
Personally, I don't think I'd enjoy KL if I was single. But if a person isn't single, it might actually be much easier and healthier to maintain a good relationship while living in KL, than it would be to live in MNL.
Manila is quite possibly, one of the best cities to live in anywhere in the world, as a single male.
What are some of the things in KL that you are sick of?
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