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Oh please BPO companies and MNCs shared services are more likely to locate in Manila than Jakarta, Bangkok and KL so there out the window does the whole "less importance" pronouncement. Outside of Singapore none of the ASEAN cities are really global cities but some are major players in certain industries.
Yes it is true, this "less importance" thingy is just completely based on ranking that were shown online with whatsoever studies they do, Manila do have its own advantages compared to the others. Though still i don't understand why you would underestimate Kuala Lumpur considering its position globally, KL actually need people to fill in their job list so they might just have more money offered than Manila. I read it from somewhere that Malaysia have 1 million vacant job or so. However career wise there is a policy in Malaysia that favors its Malay/Bumiputra population so i suppose career seeker don't really want to go to KL.
Well if you said that "none of the ASEAN city apart from Singapore" is trully a global city, actually that could be said to SIngapore as well since its main function is trully to fuel the true global city which is London and New York.
Are you single? If so, than right away, Manila would be better.
Personally, I don't think I'd enjoy KL if I was single. But if a person isn't single, it might actually be much easier and healthier to maintain a good relationship while living in KL, than it would be to live in MNL.
Manila is quite possibly, one of the best cities to live in anywhere in the world, as a single male.
What are some of the things in KL that you are sick of?
KL people are mostly individualistic so it's not easy to get to know a new people, unless you have a friend who would introduce her to you or hanging out in a bar full of expat. What im sick of KL is actually how boring the place can be, maybe its just me, but i've been getting around the city to taste pretty much everything it could offer and ended up in the same places all over again, so i just need something new in my life.
Also the Malay-Chinese social conflict, the racism, how the government treat its people can turn me off at times...
Though still i don't understand why you would underestimate Kuala Lumpur considering its position globally, KL actually need people to fill in their job list so they might just have more money offered than Manila. I read it from somewhere that Malaysia have 1 million vacant job or so. However career wise there is a policy in Malaysia that favors its Malay/Bumiputra population so i suppose career seeker don't really want to go to KL.
Aside from the Bumiputra policy, most jobs in KL focus on the domestic market. So unless an expat is setting up his or her own business, most of the assignments they will get are meant to serve the Malaysian market which is small.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22
Well if you said that "none of the ASEAN city apart from Singapore" is trully a global city, actually that could be said to SIngapore as well since its main function is trully to fuel the true global city which is London and New York.
Yes, someone who wants to be in a real global city should move to London and pay half his income to rent an 800 sqft apartment. That's the thing with global cities. They are very expensive to live in.
I've never felt unsafe in Bangkok, Saigon, Kuala Lumpur, etc. But, Manila feels a bit more like South America with the security issues. For example, in front of McDonalds or Wendys or whatever fastfood restaurant, it is quite common to see an armed guard with a huge gun and bulletproof vest manning the door. You'd never see that in Hanoi or Yangon, but you'll see it in Manila.
In general, in the other SE Asian countries, they might try to 'talk you into something'. For example, Bangkok locals might try to convince you some tourist site or restaurant is closed, and try to bring you to another one. If you agree to it, than the locals might make a little money off of you. In Manila, they'd just flat out rob you though - i.e. more like American or Latin American crime in that regard.
So, in short, it's not just 'being hassled', it's on a bit other level. Another example, in Bangkok, some kids might ask you for money, but in Manila, the kids might surround you and actually literally put their hands right into your pockets. Than you have to decide how you're going to handle that situation. In Bangkok, they'd stop themselves and go away before taking it to that level.
In short, much different than the 'typical issues' in SE Asia. I'm not saying that a person WILL experience crime in Manila, but you just have to be 'on the lookout' all the time of your surroundings, much like a person would who visits any large city in the United States or Brazil or somewhere of that nature.
However, if a person was actually living in Metro Manila, they'd know where to avoid altogether to avoid those situations. But, I'm just giving those examples, as many foreign visitors to Manila, end up in Malate/Ermita in downtown Manila, and do see, experience, and view such incidents during their visit.
The violent crime rate still doesn't seem as high as some Latin America or African countries, more like the US, so high for Asia but not that high compared to other countries. Any theories as to why this is worse in Manila vs other Asian countries? I mean even in poorer Cambodia or something you wouldn't expect that. Something to do with the culture? I know, for instance, the Thais have always had a reputation for being peaceful and gentle people (a lot of which I know is just propaganda) for a long time. Cities like Hong Kong and Singapore were once rather dangerous and seedy with a lot of gangsters and brothels. I wonder if Manila is just still in that stage in some way.
People would've chose KL over Manila if they're considering a better standard of living development, etc, but agrees with most people on how fun Manila is so it really depends on what you are seeking. I've been living in KL for 2 years and can be said that im totally sick of it, so i think i would go for Manila.
What you described there can be proved online statistics (global city, commercial centre, GDP)
(what totally surprises me though how important Jakarta is even compared to Bangkok)
Metro Manila generates less importance compared to Jakarta, Bangkok and KL. But again these are just online based rankings, though it describes what Bangkok actually offer beside its tourism and also how important its neighbor compared to Manila. But even with this ranking it doesn't show which city offer more cash than the other, Manila probably offers greater fortune for many compared to the others considering its finance based industry.
Indonesia's rapid economic growth would be the main factor, 22% of Asia's expat that receive above 250k dollar live in Jakarta! But there's been a new policy on accepting expat since unemployment is still a big problem for the country, so the number of expat in Jakarta is very likely to decline as its shown this year.
Depends what your idea of fun is. If by fun you mean cheap women, booze and maybe drugs, then yeah, Manila wins over KL, but there's little else I can think of where KL lacks compared to Manila. It has all the same mega shopping malls, so much to eat, bars and clubs like any other Asian city with cheap drinks. Plus you can get to some great locations fairly easy like the national parks, e.g. Taman Negara, Endau Rompin, go up to Melaka, Singapore, fly out to Thailand, Indonesia, or East Malaysia pretty quickly. KL city itself is just cleaner, more modern, Manila overall just looks pretty third world in most parts even if it does have shopping malls and a skyline. In some parts it looks almost as bad as Kolkata.
I've never felt unsafe in Bangkok, Saigon, Kuala Lumpur, etc. But, Manila feels a bit more like South America with the security issues. For example, in front of McDonalds or Wendys or whatever fastfood restaurant, it is quite common to see an armed guard with a huge gun and bulletproof vest manning the door. You'd never see that in Hanoi or Yangon, but you'll see it in Manila.
In general, in the other SE Asian countries, they might try to 'talk you into something'. For example, Bangkok locals might try to convince you some tourist site or restaurant is closed, and try to bring you to another one. If you agree to it, than the locals might make a little money off of you. In Manila, they'd just flat out rob you though - i.e. more like American or Latin American crime in that regard.
So, in short, it's not just 'being hassled', it's on a bit other level. Another example, in Bangkok, some kids might ask you for money, but in Manila, the kids might surround you and actually literally put their hands right into your pockets. Than you have to decide how you're going to handle that situation. In Bangkok, they'd stop themselves and go away before taking it to that level.
In short, much different than the 'typical issues' in SE Asia. I'm not saying that a person WILL experience crime in Manila, but you just have to be 'on the lookout' all the time of your surroundings, much like a person would who visits any large city in the United States or Brazil or somewhere of that nature.
However, if a person was actually living in Metro Manila, they'd know where to avoid altogether to avoid those situations. But, I'm just giving those examples, as many foreign visitors to Manila, end up in Malate/Ermita in downtown Manila, and do see, experience, and view such incidents during their visit.
Huge misconception. The armed guards are there as a precaution against terrorism. They aren't there because Filipinos would rob or shoot up any establishment if it weren't for the guards. And I've found that most of the bothersome beggars are children that you can shoo away.
If you look at the statistics, the Philippines' homicide rate is only slightly higher than that of the US and Thailand, and nowhere near South American countries.
Venezuela- 45.13 (2010)
Colombia- 31.42 (2011)
Peru- 10.32 (2009)
Indonesia- 8.07 (2008)
Philippines- 5.39 (2009)
Thailand- 4.76 (2011)
United States- 4.75 (2010)
Malaysia- 2.27 (2006) Index Mundi - Country Facts
As for the homicide rate in Metro Manila, it's harder to find statistics, but I found this
"From January to June 2013, there were 218 cases of murder and homicide reported by the Quezon City Police District, 189 cases by the Southern Police District, 102 by the Northern Police District, 47 by the Manila Police District and 44 by the Eastern Police District" Did you know: Murder, homicide cases in Metro Manila | Inquirer News
That's a total of 600 in the first half of the year. If we assume that the 2nd half will also have 600, then that's 1,200 homicides for 2013 in a city of 12 million. Homicide rate= 10 per 100,000. This is about the same as Houston, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, and Dallas.
True, legal or not it's not hard to find a prostitute anywhere in East Asia.
Yes, there could be several reasons. I don't know how much Buddhism keeps the people in check: I wonder how many Thais really try to follow the Buddha's teaching, like how many in the West follow Jesus' teachings. And Indonesia's murder rate is even higher. I mean they have no qualms about cheating and stealing, or is it more just violent crime? Thailand's homicide rate is actually similar to the US or Philippines, yet it's not seen as dangerous, I wonder why that is? Yeah most Asian countries have very strict gun laws, I didn't know there was a 'gun culture' in the Phils. One could say the 'hot blooded Latin temperament' but I think somehow social unrest has a lot to do with it, as Spain and Italy are very safe. Perhaps it has something to do with Manila funnelling in all the vice. What is crime like outside the Manila capital region?
Manila has tremendous potential. But, I personally feel what really holds is back among foreigner perceptions, is how scummy Manila can be in the areas that foreigners see and spend time in.
Generally speaking, the majority of hotels are in the Ermita/Malate area of Manila, which is Scum Central for mothers gambling with their naked children hovering around them, constantly encouraged their naked kids to go harass a foreigner for more TONGITS (a Filipino gambling game) money. You also get middle aged Filipino men in drag, deep voice, harrassing foreigner walking by. You get more guys following around trying to sell sex, drugs, etc. It goes on and on and on and on with Manila.
Once you get out of Manila, the Philippines is great! But, for most travelers, the introduction to Manila, really wears them down quickly!!!
If the authorities could clean up the streets of Malate/Ermita, where all the foreigners get their hotel rooms and try to walk around, I think it would be a huge start in the right direction.
I'm a fan of the Philippines, only because I always visit and quickly get out of Manila. There is also a ton of interesting areas like Makati, etc. Best to just get a taxi and head directly for the malls. Almost any walking around anywhere in Manila, and you can almost always expect to be harrassed or bothered as a foreigner on a street. In the malls, however, everyone leaves you alone.
If a person can explore a bit without being worn down from the experience, there is a lot of really great things to see and do in Manila! I actually would like the city a whole lot more, if I could only walk around Ermita/Malate in peace without harassment.
In short, if there was some massive public works campaign that just educated Manila locals that they really need to leave foreigners alone when walking down the street. Don't follow them, don't tell their kids to follow them, etc. It's quite a contrast to somewhere like Davao, where they must have those types of campaigns, as whenever I've been down there, locals will instantly feel ashamed and embarrassed to see their locals doing anything Manila-like, and quickly reprimand the harasser.
Agreed on this, but there's also the incredible endemic corruption there (though most of Southeast Asia has that to varying degrees).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy
Singapore has industries where it can claim to be #1 (at least in its region) in, notwithstanding its size, so "punching above its weight" analogy applies to Singapore. Same with Rotterdam and Zurich in Western Europe. They are small but are #1 in certain major industries. Being small alone does not mean it punches above its weight. KL is small but is not #1 in anything of industrial significance so it does not share the same attributes as Singapore. Both have nice airports though.
It doesn't have to be number 1 in anything, because that isn't the claim at all. What it does have is a decent economy and a much higher standard of living with a few pretty strong industries which belies the fact that it's a much smaller city in a much smaller country compared to several other Southeast Asian countries including the Philippines. The argument isn't that it's number 1. The whole thing with punching above one's weight is actually not about being the absolute winner in any single category.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
It's on a different level in Manila though.
I've never felt unsafe in Bangkok, Saigon, Kuala Lumpur, etc. But, Manila feels a bit more like South America with the security issues. For example, in front of McDonalds or Wendys or whatever fastfood restaurant, it is quite common to see an armed guard with a huge gun and bulletproof vest manning the door. You'd never see that in Hanoi or Yangon, but you'll see it in Manila.
In general, in the other SE Asian countries, they might try to 'talk you into something'. For example, Bangkok locals might try to convince you some tourist site or restaurant is closed, and try to bring you to another one. If you agree to it, than the locals might make a little money off of you. In Manila, they'd just flat out rob you though - i.e. more like American or Latin American crime in that regard.
So, in short, it's not just 'being hassled', it's on a bit other level. Another example, in Bangkok, some kids might ask you for money, but in Manila, the kids might surround you and actually literally put their hands right into your pockets. Than you have to decide how you're going to handle that situation. In Bangkok, they'd stop themselves and go away before taking it to that level.
In short, much different than the 'typical issues' in SE Asia. I'm not saying that a person WILL experience crime in Manila, but you just have to be 'on the lookout' all the time of your surroundings, much like a person would who visits any large city in the United States or Brazil or somewhere of that nature.
However, if a person was actually living in Metro Manila, they'd know where to avoid altogether to avoid those situations. But, I'm just giving those examples, as many foreign visitors to Manila, end up in Malate/Ermita in downtown Manila, and do see, experience, and view such incidents during their visit.
Yea, I had that with kids in Manila or start grabbing for what food I have. The other amazing thing is the kind of antipathy people in the gentry have for the hoi polloi. There's just a general sketchiness in Manila that was a lot less present in other cities I've visited. Cebu is great though.
Yea, I had that with kids in Manila or start grabbing for what food I have. The other amazing thing is the kind of antipathy people in the gentry have for the hoi polloi. There's just a general sketchiness in Manila that was a lot less present in other cities I've visited. Cebu is great though.
I agree about Cebu! It has most of the positives that Manila has, and very few of the negatives that Manila has.
Which ties in with The Postman's question about is all of the Philippines like Manila (when it comes to safety, etc.). No, it's not. Once you get outside of Manila, the provinces of the Philippines are totally different. Very comfortable, and people can be some of the nicest, give-you-shirt-off-your back, and share whatever little food they have, kinds of people, you could ever meet.
I agree about Cebu! It has most of the positives that Manila has, and very few of the negatives that Manila has.
Which ties in with The Postman's question about is all of the Philippines like Manila (when it comes to safety, etc.). No, it's not. Once you get outside of Manila, the provinces of the Philippines are totally different. Very comfortable, and people can be some of the nicest, give-you-shirt-off-your back, and share whatever little food they have, kinds of people, you could ever meet.
Perhaps if I go to the Phils I will just spend a day in Manila, just to see what it's like (and not go out after dark) and then spend most of time day away. I'm more anxious to see what the situation's like there, how bad the poverty.etc is too, not that I'll be making a special trip to the slums. The cemetery where people live looks like a curious attraction though. It's not a city I feel I must visit though.
It's funny because the Filipinos abroad seem so friendly and benevolent...they don't seem like a violent or aggressive people.
Of course I'm sure most actually aren't, but I find that funny.
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