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Tokyo with 35 million population (Canada's entire population) has been by far the world's largest metropolitan area for years on a land of 13.5k sq km. In comparison, New York while with 30% more land, has only 22-23 million. NYC will probably never be bigger than Tokyo.
However, Shanghai seems to be catching up. The municipality alone has 24 million already, vast majority (95%) urban. There are quite a few nearby smaller cities which are increasingly being intregrated into Shanghai. Suzhou for example, has 5.5M, and in a few years, the subway system in the two cities will be connected
Last year with the extension of Line 11 into Kunshan, par of Suzhou in Jiangsu province, Shanghai Metro became the first rapid transit system in China to connect two provincial-level administrative divisions. There are plans to further connect the Shanghai Metro with the metro systems of Suzhou and even Wuxi.
Then there is Huzhou and Jiaxing on the south/southwest, all within 2.5 hours driving distance.
I wouldn't include Nanjing and Hangzhou, capital of Jiangsu and Zhejiang. Both are within 3 hours distance from Shanghai. They will probably remain their own cities just like Philly will never be part of New York.
Currently, these smaller (only by Chinese standard) cities are not integrated into Greater Shanghai Area (GSA), but with rapid urbanization and the expanding of Shanghai's influence, including the fast growth of subway system as well as high speed rail, it is totally likely that they will be within the next decade.
Also note that these are not poor regions. Shanghai's per capita GDP is $15K nominal and $20K PPP. Suzhou's per capital GDP is $18K nominal and $24k PPP. Xuxi $17K nominal, $23K PPP.
It's going to take more than 10 years for Shanghai to pass up Tokyo but it will eventually happen. There's millions upon millions of Chinese in rural areas that would love to come to Shanghai for work. I worked in Shanghai and keep in mind that the Chinese Govt limits people officially moving there unless they have a job. There are plenty there illegally though. Also the Shanghai people have their own language and there's an attitude of superiority that other Chinese feel when they emigrate there.
Shanghai is a very international city with a history of attracting foreigners as well as Chinese people. So I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually surpasses Tokyo.
Also the Shanghai people have their own language and there's an attitude of superiority that other Chinese feel when they emigrate there.
Used to be like this, but it is rapidly becoming an non-issue. Fewer and fewer young Shanghainese feel the need to be so arrogant about their dialect any more.
Plus, Mandarin is still the official language in work, media, and all other more formal occasions.
Used to be like this, but it is rapidly becoming an non-issue. Fewer and fewer young Shanghainese feel the need to be so arrogant about their dialect any more.
Plus, Mandarin is still the official language in work, media, and all other more formal occasions.
I have a couple of things to say about this comment.
Firstly, yes, the younger generation is losing the ability to speak Shanghainese. I have numerous friends from the city and none of them have children that can speak it. Even the ones who live in Shanghai can't speak it.
Secondly, it is a SHAME that younger Shanghainese are losing their language. Such an important language to Chinese culture and identity is truly being crushed by the oppressive hand of communism. Absolutely saddening if you ask me and I feel blessed to have been surrounded by this endangered language for the past six years of my life through friends and loved ones.
On the topic at hand, I would like to think that Shanghai will pass Tokyo someday, but right now I still have a few doubts that it will happen. Shanghai is still 11 million people behind and growth rates are down from last decade. At the current rate it would take until the 2030s for Shanghai to pass Tokyo and so many things can change between now and then.
I have a couple of things to say about this comment.
Firstly, yes, the younger generation is losing the ability to speak Shanghainese. I have numerous friends from the city and none of them have children that can speak it. Even the ones who live in Shanghai can't speak it. .
Not true. Most Shanghainese children can still speak the dialect. But due to the influence of foreign concepts, they are unable to express everything in Shanghainese - which is not surprising because most chinese dialects serve primarily as local vernacular, and never was fully functional as a business or academic language. I agree Shanghainese is in decline but not nearly as dire as you make it out to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains
Secondly, it is a SHAME that younger Shanghainese are losing their language. Such an important language to Chinese culture and identity is truly being crushed by the oppressive hand of communism. Absolutely saddening if you ask me and I feel blessed to have been surrounded by this endangered language for the past six years of my life through friends and loved ones..
No, Shanghainese was never such a "important language to the Chinese culture". I don't know where you get that conclusion. First there is no written form of Shanghainese, no there is no literature to talk about whatsoever. Second, in terms of spreaking, there is some local shanghai opera but its infuence has always been local and hardly extended to other provinces. All regional operas are in rapid decline, not because of "oppression", but because young people don't like them.
Shanghainese is by no means endangered. If you walk in the city, you hear it practically everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains
On the topic at hand, I would like to think that Shanghai will pass Tokyo someday, but right now I still have a few doubts that it will happen. Shanghai is still 11 million people behind and growth rates are down from last decade. At the current rate it would take until the 2030s for Shanghai to pass Tokyo and so many things can change between now and then.
Shanghai is not 11 million behind. 35M is the population of the entire Greater Tokyo Area, with covers 14,000 sq km, more than twice as the Minicipality of Shanghai (6300 sq km with 24M). Motropolis Tokyo has only 13M people, pretty similar to the population of Shanghai within the "outter Ring" (12M).
Yes, Shanghai is still smaller, but definitely not 11 million smaller.
Not true. Most Shanghainese children can still speak the dialect. But due to the influence of foreign concepts, they are unable to express everything in Shanghainese - which is not surprising because most chinese dialects serve primarily as local vernacular, and never was fully functional as a business or academic language. I agree Shanghainese is in decline but not nearly as dire as you make it out to be.
No, Shanghainese was never such a "important language to the Chinese culture". I don't know where you get that conclusion. First there is no written form of Shanghainese, no there is no literature to talk about whatsoever. Second, in terms of spreaking, there is some local shanghai opera but its infuence has always been local and hardly extended to other provinces. All regional operas are in rapid decline, not because of "oppression", but because young people don't like them.
Shanghainese is by no means endangered. If you walk in the city, you hear it practically everywhere.
Shanghai is not 11 million behind. 35M is the population of the entire Greater Tokyo Area, with covers 14,000 sq km, more than twice as the Minicipality of Shanghai (6300 sq km with 24M). Motropolis Tokyo has only 13M people, pretty similar to the population of Shanghai within the "outter Ring" (12M).
Yes, Shanghai is still smaller, but definitely not 11 million smaller.
Oh. In that case Shanghai will probably pass it. lol. I wasn't aware of the land area differences.
If going by population, not only Shanghai but Manila, Jakarta, Delhi, Mumbai could also be poised the surpass Tokyo...still, just because Japan's population is declining does not mean Tokyo's will, but I doubt it will grow anywhere as fast as these other cities.
In terms of overall importance - especially economic - I'm not sure when that will happen. Tokyo's GDP is still a lot bigger than Shanghai and economically it remains more important, but I wouldn't be surprised if Shanghai becomes the predominant economic centre in Asia, surpassing Tokyo and Hong Kong.
^ What do you mean 'arrogant' about their dialect? You act like all the other language groups should just stop speaking their languages.
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