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And what is that middle ground? How do they even come up with that?
NEA is a region, not a genetic clustering. Same with SEA. Don't get those confused. Vietnamese are closer to Chinese than they are to Malays, Southern Chinese closer to Vietnamese than Mongolians, Mongolians closer to some Tungids than Southern Chinese.
No one is confusing region and genetic clustering, just don't bring it up all of a sudden. A = Asia/Asians, I just see no reason to type it in full.
Middle ground as in genetically in between NEA and SEA. We all know there's a gradient of genetic difference, but just because the middle ground exist doesn't make the distinction of each end any more vague. Eurasians exist so does that mean there's no clear genetic distinction between EA and Whites? Or does it make the distinction less and more vague? Of course not.
Yes and no. Malay's seem to vary in looks, especially in Singapore. Some Malays look Southern Chinese (albeit some have Chinese ancestry or might be converts). Also some Chinese look Malay, due to the Austronesian influence. Also in Indonesia, some Javanese look classically oriental even with the epicanthic folds, just with darker skin. Not all Indonesian natives have large wide eyes and prominent brow ridges. I think there's something to be said for a pan-Mongoloid 'type', as the old (if outdated) 'racial scientists' classified them.
You need to pay attention to the concept of "typical" here. Some people look like this and some look like that blah blah blah.... seriously. I've seen some Whites who can almost pass as East Asian, particularly among young children and old people. I've also seen some southern European who can almost pass as Southeast Asian. I've also seen some African tribes who have some East Asian features. But what does that say about the overall genetic distance of these groups? Nothing. The definition of what looks oriental is also rather vague here. For some people someone who have chinky eyes + big nose and lips might look oriental, but not to other people.
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It's still fairly obvious an Indonesian is closer to a Korean than either are to a Caucasian. Genetic studies have sort of suggested this. So yes, NEA and SEA Asians cluster together more than either is to Indians or something (with a few exceptions). Looks aren't always a guide to genetic relatedness. A Papuan is closer to a European than an African, despite looking more like a 'black person.'
Let's just assume that you're right for the sake of argument. What significance does this hold exactly? What are you trying to say? An Indonesian is still very different from a Korean, and a papuan is still very different from a European.
The genetic composition of a group would have a minimal effect if any on shaping, influencing, or determining their culture unless there are sociological(cultural) factors at play such as the Black/White dichotomy in the US; and even then, it isn't genes themselves that create the phenomenon.
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Originally Posted by The Postman
Definitely. Culture is transmitted with close geographical proximity so similar looking people TEND to have similar culture, but of course these days with mass-migrations things get complicated. Hungarians not speaking an IE language, for instance. Does that make Sri Lankan Sinhalese, who also speak an IE language, closer to Czechs than Hungarians? Of course not. An African and a white American are of course culturally a lot similar than either is to an African or say a Pole from Poland.
Culture is transmitted, but how does that culture exist in the first place? Or better yet, why does culture even exist? Why don't European and East Asian culture turn out the same? Culture is not fully based on genetics, which is why I say "to a certain extent". Southeast Asians most likely had their own culture before any contact with outsiders, and when contact happens, others cultures are integrated and assimilated into their own culture as progression.
you cant really stop people from lumping these two groups together. People lump similar-looking peoples together. So even though the Philippines is culturally nothing like Japan, people lump the two groups together in the Asian category because they look similar enough.
You need to pay attention to the concept of "typical" here. Some people look like this and some look like that blah blah blah.... seriously. I've seen some Whites who can almost pass as East Asian, particularly among young children and old people. I've also seen some southern European who can almost pass as Southeast Asian. I've also seen some African tribes who have some East Asian features. But what does that say about the overall genetic distance of these groups? Nothing. The definition of what looks oriental is also rather vague here. For some people someone who have chinky eyes + big nose and lips might look oriental, but not to other people.
Let's just assume that you're right for the sake of argument. What significance does this hold exactly? What are you trying to say? An Indonesian is still very different from a Korean, and a papuan is still very different from a European.
YES of course ,Koreans very different with Indonesians and other SEA Peoples, Korean looks more like Manchus, some chinese, japanese even mongolians, I have some korean friends ..posture they are very high body and have a fairly sharp nose.
In Indonesia, korean look pretty much present here, but they is KOREANS especially they live in Jakarta and Wst Java & have some well-known companies in western Java, I even ate Korean food with my friends koreans but none that I like, I just ate fried fish just to appreciate their food.
Yes and no. Malay's seem to vary in looks, especially in Singapore. Some Malays look Southern Chinese (albeit some have Chinese ancestry or might be converts). Also some Chinese look Malay, due to the Austronesian influence. Also in Indonesia, some Javanese look classically oriental even with the epicanthic folds, just with darker skin. Not all Indonesian natives have large wide eyes and prominent brow ridges. I think there's something to be said for a pan-Mongoloid 'type', as the old (if outdated) 'racial scientists' classified them.
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some Javanese look classically oriental even with the epicanthic folds, just with darker skin. very appropriate for your writing " ALIKA " Javanese.
Many people in the US and Canadians and Australians seem to do. I don't know about others in the western world.
Some people say that South-East Asians look like East Asians and have close enough cultural ties enough to be put in the same group but others think not. There are other influences in South-East Asia that are not East Asian-related, such as Spanish in the Philippines from colonial influence, Islam in South-East Asia in religion in places like Indonesia and Malaysia, plus ancient India influenced its civilizations.
Do you think the reason most lump SE Asians with E Asians is due to physical appearance or culture or both and do you think they should be treated distinctively enough as another category of people in Asia (Like South Asians, West Asians are their own categories etc.) or equally treated as a region between South and East Asia?
Well, as a white person living in Asia, the mass majority of people tend to think ALL white people can be lumped as 'westerners' or sometimes even all as 'Americans' despite them being non-Americans who just happen to be white.
You really can't stop people from using all-inclusive labels from time to time.
you cant really stop people from lumping these two groups together. People lump similar-looking peoples together. So even though the Philippines is culturally nothing like Japan, people lump the two groups together in the Asian category because they look similar enough.
The occasional Viets and Thais may resemble East Asian more, but Philippines? I've yet to see foreigners say that they have a hard time distinguishing Filipinos and Japanese.
The occasional Viets and Thais may resemble East Asian more, but Philippines? I've yet to see foreigners say that they have a hard time distinguishing Filipinos and Japanese.
I didnt say Filipinos look like East Asians, but they look similar enough that people would think they're part of the same race. Maybe 20% of Filipinos look too Australoid to even be associated with any Mainland Asians, but 80% look akin to East Asians. And many Japanese actually look Southeast Asian. There is a lot more overlap between Japanese and Filipinos than there is between Koreans and Filipinos.
I'd say it's all a matter of perspective. Just because A is closer to B than it is to C, doesn't mean that A and B are similar or even remotely similar at all. Aliens might lump all humans together, but the difference is still there.
I look at some of your comments are not even related threads ...you always bring RACE , skin color, genetic, DNA .. bla bla bla? Whether you are an Anthropology?OR it is very important to you and constantly compare ?!!!?? ^ ^
Last edited by stevania01; 02-23-2014 at 07:17 AM..
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I look at some of your comments are not even related threads ...you always bring RACE , skin color, genetic, DNA .. bla bla bla? Whether you are an Anthropology?OR it is very important to you and constantly compare ?!!!?? ^ ^
