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Old 09-17-2015, 02:53 AM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,624,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawflakes View Post
Did I say anything about number of troops? I mentioned 1.4 billion people because that is money, not troops. each Chinese donate just one dollar would be 1.4 billion dollars.
Which actually doesn't get you much these days on a national level. I read somewhere the other day that the annual tax receipt of Shanghai alone is greater than the total tax revenue for all of Russia or India. Amazing.
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Old 09-17-2015, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,372,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawflakes View Post
Chinese used to like US, but now most of young generation hate US because they hate Japan, US is the one behind Japan & support Japan. I don't want to judge it's right or wrong for Chinese being anti-Japan, I am just giving a fact which can't be denied or ignored.
Damndest thing, I live in china and feel little hatred towards the US, especially from young people. Most people who hate the US are aging, former Red Guards... the sort that fall on the ground, then blame the young people who come to help them up and demand compensation, eat stray dogs, etc.
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Old 09-17-2015, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,372,272 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Which actually doesn't get you much these days on a national level. I read somewhere the other day that the annual tax receipt of Shanghai alone is greater than the total tax revenue for all of Russia or India. Amazing.
You could build a really nice hotel or something.... or, buy and finish building a 28 year old Soviet aircraft carrier that had been sitting there, inert and unfinished, since 1989... which I guess counts for something

What I will say is that although China's economy is "slowing down" and you hear a lot of negativity about it, ultimately there is little perceptible change in day to day life here, unlike back in the US in 08 when the economy was hemorrhaging jobs left and right and businesses were shuttering. The Chinese economy won't "sink" any time soon. In the West, people seem to think of anything less than stratospheric growth as failure, but the reality is that with a market that's as big as China's, even slow growth can outpace what is considered "robust" growth elsewhere.

The US and EU should pay attention to their own economic issues first and foremost, especially considering that one of the main catalysts for Chinese growth was Western exploitation of China's cheap labor and resources.

If you go hire a Mexican guy outside of a Home Depot because he's half the going rate of your cousin's contracting company, you can't cry foul when he moves into a house next to you and your cousin has to close up shop and move out to the boonies.
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Old 09-17-2015, 08:03 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,281,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawflakes View Post
Chinese used to like US, but now most of young generation hate US because they hate Japan, US is the one behind Japan & support Japan. I don't want to judge it's right or wrong for Chinese being anti-Japan, I am just giving a fact which can't be denied or ignored.
I don't think most young Chinese hate the US. Only during some direct confrontation a lot of young Chinese become nationalist and scream the anti-US slogans, but I'd say most Chinese don't hate the US. I'd go as far as saying most Chinese don't hate Japan (a lot do though).

Hating Japan was a Chinese tradition only because it was the first country that kicked the Chinese Empire really bad and made it realize it was not a great power any longer. Despite all the atrocity the Japanese committed, China should move past this and focus on the present. The truth is, if you are weak, you will get bullied one way or another. It is the case in the 19s and 20s century and it is still the case now (although not likely in direct military conquering). What China should do, instead of constantly instigating the nationalist sentiment, is to improve the quality of life of its people and solve all the problems at home. National defense is of course important but nationalism is dangerous.

It is not the German/Japanese governments that started the war. It is the nationalism of the German/Japanese people that gave rise to it.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:30 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,624,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
You could build a really nice hotel or something.... or, buy and finish building a 28 year old Soviet aircraft carrier that had been sitting there, inert and unfinished, since 1989... which I guess counts for something

What I will say is that although China's economy is "slowing down" and you hear a lot of negativity about it, ultimately there is little perceptible change in day to day life here, unlike back in the US in 08 when the economy was hemorrhaging jobs left and right and businesses were shuttering. The Chinese economy won't "sink" any time soon. In the West, people seem to think of anything less than stratospheric growth as failure, but the reality is that with a market that's as big as China's, even slow growth can outpace what is considered "robust" growth elsewhere.

The US and EU should pay attention to their own economic issues first and foremost, especially considering that one of the main catalysts for Chinese growth was Western exploitation of China's cheap labor and resources.

If you go hire a Mexican guy outside of a Home Depot because he's half the going rate of your cousin's contracting company, you can't cry foul when he moves into a house next to you and your cousin has to close up shop and move out to the boonies.
OMG, how did this happen? For once, I absolutely and totally agree with YOU! There must be a mistake!

The one thing I would add is that the old Ukrainian carrier was just a shell. The Chinese got some blueprints on how to retrofit it, but all of the propulsion, sensors and all of the hardware and software electronics are Chinese and brand new on the Liaoning. It's already far more advanced than the one Russian carrier of the same class Adm Kutnezsov that the Russian Navy operates due to its better electronics and sensors. The Russian ship is a rust bucket that can't even sustain any sea travel for any length of time, while the Liaoning looks brand spanking new and brimming with new radars (Chinese aegis systems) etc. But it's just a training vessel. The two new carriers being built right now in China are the real Chinese carriers...they are due out in 2018-2020.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:48 PM
 
17,319 posts, read 10,241,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I don't think most young Chinese hate the US. Only during some direct confrontation a lot of young Chinese become nationalist and scream the anti-US slogans, but I'd say most Chinese don't hate the US. I'd go as far as saying most Chinese don't hate Japan (a lot do though).

Hating Japan was a Chinese tradition only because it was the first country that kicked the Chinese Empire really bad and made it realize it was not a great power any longer. Despite all the atrocity the Japanese committed, China should move past this and focus on the present. The truth is, if you are weak, you will get bullied one way or another. It is the case in the 19s and 20s century and it is still the case now (although not likely in direct military conquering). What China should do, instead of constantly instigating the nationalist sentiment, is to improve the quality of life of its people and solve all the problems at home. National defense is of course important but nationalism is dangerous.

It is not the German/Japanese governments that started the war. It is the nationalism of the German/Japanese people that gave rise to it.
The Chinese government has a lot to do with this irrational anti Japanese hatred. Tang dynasty and his many aliases are proof of this.

Look what happened a few years ago when the Chinese government stood back and not only allowed, but encouraged Chinese citizens to brutally assault Japanese citizens and interests throughout China. Japanese businesses were destroyed like Panasonic, ironic since the then PM of China in 1984 actively sought japanese investors and technology to modernize China's industry. By contrast, Japanese citizens didn't go around beating up Chinese civilians or torching their businesses end masse in Japan.

Biggest irony are the Chinese government and anti Japanese nationalists engaging in the very same things they accuse Japan of doing, whitewashing history. And yes the japanese government has apologized numerous times.

Certainly I am not condoning the sickening atrocities perpetuated by Japan during WW2. But to continually use that as an excuse to further political agendas such as fights over islands or cover your own governments mess ups is ludicrous.
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:37 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,624,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
The Chinese government has a lot to do with this irrational anti Japanese hatred. Tang dynasty and his many aliases are proof of this.

Look what happened a few years ago when the Chinese government stood back and not only allowed, but encouraged Chinese citizens to brutally assault Japanese citizens and interests throughout China. Japanese businesses were destroyed like Panasonic, ironic since the then PM of China in 1984 actively sought japanese investors and technology to modernize China's industry. By contrast, Japanese citizens didn't go around beating up Chinese civilians or torching their businesses end masse in Japan.

Biggest irony are the Chinese government and anti Japanese nationalists engaging in the very same things they accuse Japan of doing, whitewashing history. And yes the japanese government has apologized numerous times.

Certainly I am not condoning the sickening atrocities perpetuated by Japan during WW2. But to continually use that as an excuse to further political agendas such as fights over islands or cover your own governments mess ups is ludicrous.
Well, your post sounds a lot like a diversion attempt at any sort of Japanese responsibility for the war and the atrocities it committed. Sure China used historic memories to rile up nationalism, but who wouldn't? Why should Japan be forgiven so easily? It did commit those atrocities, and it was guilty.

Those islands belong to China. Whatever the Chinese government does or does not do won't change that fact, buddy.
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:10 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,281,099 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
The Chinese government has a lot to do with this irrational anti Japanese hatred. Tang dynasty and his many aliases are proof of this.

Look what happened a few years ago when the Chinese government stood back and not only allowed, but encouraged Chinese citizens to brutally assault Japanese citizens and interests throughout China. Japanese businesses were destroyed like Panasonic, ironic since the then PM of China in 1984 actively sought japanese investors and technology to modernize China's industry. By contrast, Japanese citizens didn't go around beating up Chinese civilians or torching their businesses end masse in Japan.

Biggest irony are the Chinese government and anti Japanese nationalists engaging in the very same things they accuse Japan of doing, whitewashing history. And yes the japanese government has apologized numerous times.

Certainly I am not condoning the sickening atrocities perpetuated by Japan during WW2. But to continually use that as an excuse to further political agendas such as fights over islands or cover your own governments mess ups is ludicrous.
I always say nationalism (or patriotism) is very dangerous.
I don't think the Chinese "brutally assaulted Japanese citizens throughout China" though. They did destroyed many Japanese cars owned by other Chinese people, which is rather stupid.

The Chinese government is very smart these days. They know when to tolerate such nationalism to its own advantage.
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:30 AM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,624,053 times
Reputation: 7406
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I always say nationalism (or patriotism) is very dangerous.
I don't think the Chinese "brutally assaulted Japanese citizens throughout China" though. They did destroyed many Japanese cars owned by other Chinese people, which is rather stupid.

The Chinese government is very smart these days. They know when to tolerate such nationalism to its own advantage.
I think the Japanese just passed a resolution allowing for the JSDF (a silly misnomer at best) to carry out offensive action without provocation. This should give China another good reason to speed up and add to its defense budget even more. Now that japan is trashing its "peace" constitution, China should not waste its time protesting. Military buildup to maintain peace and security should be China's quiet goal.
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Old 09-18-2015, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,372,272 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
I think the Japanese just passed a resolution allowing for the JSDF (a silly misnomer at best) to carry out offensive action without provocation. This should give China another good reason to speed up and add to its defense budget even more. Now that japan is trashing its "peace" constitution, China should not waste its time protesting. Military buildup to maintain peace and security should be China's quiet goal.
China has already been protesting and building up their military for some time. If anything, the (somewhat unpopular among the Japanese populace) change in the Japanese military policy is a result of China's increased military buildup and anti-Japanese rhetoric.
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