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Old 09-18-2015, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,780 posts, read 13,365,753 times
Reputation: 11309

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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I always say nationalism (or patriotism) is very dangerous.
Nationalism is, IMHO, more often than not the province of people who have no achievements of their own to stand on or take specific pride in.

Now, take a culture that is already collectivist and ties nationalism to ethnicity, add an overblown sense of nationalism, and you have a potentially very bad situation... the Chinese of all people ahould understand this since that was the drivibg force behind the Imperial Japanese Empire's historical actions against them.

Quote:
I don't think the Chinese "brutally assaulted Japanese citizens throughout China" though. They did destroyed many Japanese cars owned by other Chinese people, which is rather stupid.
Most Japanese citizens in China can pass visually as Chinese and thus aren't likely to be singled out by any crazy nationalists, and for that matter, most Chinese people - even those who harbor very ill will toward Japan - won't assault a Japanese person.

Bigotry is borne of ignorance, and most people who harbor such stupid nationalist bigotry, can knee-jerkedly state their hatred of whatever group, and maybe enjoy reading an article or watching something on TV that makes them feel better and justified for having such an opinion will still recoil at the notion of actually engaging in actively hurting a real, live member of that group.

The angry, overgrown-baby jixu who attacked their evidently so-beloved countrymen for driving a damn Honda deserve to be dealt with in kind, IMHO.

Quote:
The Chinese government is very smart these days. They know when to tolerate such nationalism to its own advantage.
Well, they should be careful and remember what happened with Mao's Red Guards. Stoking a bit of nationalism is normal and smart, but if you go too far in a tense climate (disillusionment over corruption, unsure future prosoects for millions of young people, and uncertainty about the economy), bad things have happened before and can happen again... though I sure hope they don't.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:19 AM
 
4,695 posts, read 3,619,623 times
Reputation: 7394
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Nationalism is, IMHO, more often than not the province of people who have no achievements of their own to stand on or take specific pride in.

Now, take a culture that is already collectivist and ties nationalism to ethnicity, add an overblown sense of nationalism, and you have a potentially very bad situation... the Chinese of all people ahould understand this since that was the drivibg force behind the Imperial Japanese Empire's historical actions against them.


Most Japanese citizens in China can pass visually as Chinese and thus aren't likely to be singled out by any crazy nationalists, and for that matter, most Chinese people - even those who harbor very ill will toward Japan - won't assault a Japanese person.

Bigotry is borne of ignorance, and most people who harbor such stupid nationalist bigotry, can knee-jerkedly state their hatred of whatever group, and maybe enjoy reading an article or watching something on TV that makes them feel better and justified for having such an opinion will still recoil at the notion of actually engaging in actively hurting a real, live member of that group.

The angry, overgrown-baby jixu who attacked their evidently so-beloved countrymen for driving a damn Honda deserve to be dealt with in kind, IMHO.


Well, they should be careful and remember what happened with Mao's Red Guards. Stoking a bit of nationalism is normal and smart, but if you go too far in a tense climate (disillusionment over corruption, unsure future prosoects for millions of young people, and uncertainty about the economy), bad things have happened before and can happen again... though I sure hope they don't.
What you point out is nationalism gone wild for relatively modern states like Japan and Germany during the early 20th century. But the Chinese historically did not have ENOUGH nationalism of the modern variety to save itself from foreign encroachment. That was one of the weakness of the Qing and so modern Chinese nationalism is a reaction to that weakness and an understandable one. Absolutely nothing wrong with using history to create and bind one's people, especially in the huge and complex context of China. maybe nationalism is passe in some places, but for China it is still a very useful tool.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:43 PM
 
1,379 posts, read 1,815,839 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Nationalism is, IMHO, more often than not the province of people who have no achievements of their own to stand on or take specific pride in.

Now, take a culture that is already collectivist and ties nationalism to ethnicity, add an overblown sense of nationalism, and you have a potentially very bad situation... the Chinese of all people ahould understand this since that was the drivibg force behind the Imperial Japanese Empire's historical actions against them.


Most Japanese citizens in China can pass visually as Chinese and thus aren't likely to be singled out by any crazy nationalists, and for that matter, most Chinese people - even those who harbor very ill will toward Japan - won't assault a Japanese person.

Bigotry is borne of ignorance, and most people who harbor such stupid nationalist bigotry, can knee-jerkedly state their hatred of whatever group, and maybe enjoy reading an article or watching something on TV that makes them feel better and justified for having such an opinion will still recoil at the notion of actually engaging in actively hurting a real, live member of that group.

The angry, overgrown-baby jixu who attacked their evidently so-beloved countrymen for driving a damn Honda deserve to be dealt with in kind, IMHO.


Well, they should be careful and remember what happened with Mao's Red Guards. Stoking a bit of nationalism is normal and smart, but if you go too far in a tense climate (disillusionment over corruption, unsure future prosoects for millions of young people, and uncertainty about the economy), bad things have happened before and can happen again... though I sure hope they don't.
The desire for resources and markets was the real impetus behind Japan's actions during the imperial period. Nationalism was minor at best since Japan was already a unified nation state with all ethnic Japanese living within its borders. The US was opposed to these actions since they feared that the Japanese would shut out all competitors from the Chinese market; and these fears were somewhat true since Japan completely monopolized its position in Manchuria and shut out all foreign competitors (which is why even Germany was reluctant to recognize Manchukuo).
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:43 PM
 
542 posts, read 490,385 times
Reputation: 453
Nothing wrong with Nationalism as long as it's kept in check. I'm proud to be an American but no so much that I let it interfere with common sense. I understand the transgressions of past elected officials who basically had a "carte blanche" to do what they wished but with more competition (I think) comes a desire to have those officials held to the fire of keeping your country relevant.

I welcome the presence of another global power, it'd be nice to have the idiots in government be forced to make smart choices instead of riding the wave of their predecessors & legislation.

In a free marketplace, the cream will always rise to the top.

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Old 09-19-2015, 09:10 AM
 
4,695 posts, read 3,619,623 times
Reputation: 7394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Dat View Post
Nothing wrong with Nationalism as long as it's kept in check. I'm proud to be an American but no so much that I let it interfere with common sense. I understand the transgressions of past elected officials who basically had a "carte blanche" to do what they wished but with more competition (I think) comes a desire to have those officials held to the fire of keeping your country relevant.

I welcome the presence of another global power, it'd be nice to have the idiots in government be forced to make smart choices instead of riding the wave of their predecessors & legislation.

In a free marketplace, the cream will always rise to the top.

So , if Trump is leading in the GOP race, what does that say about the quality of the American "cream"?
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:15 AM
 
542 posts, read 490,385 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
So , if Trump is leading in the GOP race, what does that say about the quality of the American "cream"?
I think it says that we have a drug problem among other things.

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Old 09-19-2015, 03:21 PM
 
4,695 posts, read 3,619,623 times
Reputation: 7394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Dat View Post
I think it says that we have a drug problem among other things.

ROFLOL! And we can still nuke China 400 times over and Japan is just a dog doing our work in Asia, so it's all good!----American nationalism at its best.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Asia
2,761 posts, read 1,103,742 times
Reputation: 2989
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
...Japan is just a dog doing our work in Asia...
How so?
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:12 PM
 
16 posts, read 12,239 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Dat View Post
Nothing wrong with Nationalism as long as it's kept in check. I'm proud to be an American but no so much that I let it interfere with common sense.
Being proud to be an American is not nationalism, it's patriotism.
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:33 PM
 
4,695 posts, read 3,619,623 times
Reputation: 7394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Brightside View Post
Being proud to be an American is not nationalism, it's patriotism.
That's right! A nationalistic American is a true "patriot", while a nationalistic Chinese is a brainwashed loser who can't think for him/herself.....yeah right.
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