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I'm a non-militant Atheist. I respect other's right to believe whatever they choose and only expect them to respect my right not to believe.
By non-militant, I mean that I don't care at all about things like what is printed on money or who says Merry Christmas to me.
I am thankful that I live in a Democracy with a Constitution that says I can't be forced to believe something. Along with that, I understand and accept that I am in a minority and I have no right to expect the majority to submit to my system of non-belief.
Basically, I just tune-out all the religious stuff and go about my own business. Many people just assume that I am a Christian in certain circumstances. I just let them think that in most cases where it's not worth my time or energy to correct them. But there have been a few instances where I was pushed to the point of telling them and simply ask them to respect my right the same as I respect theirs.
PS: I was raised in the Anglican Church (nearly Catholic) and in my youth was quite involved with it.
I agree. The reason why I am militant - or at least active - is because I cannot trust others to respect my right NOT to believe. You will be aware of a VERY bad press and reputation that atheists have. Well, do you think it justified?
If not, how do you think we got it?
Yep. And how long do you think (if we did as many, many Christian posters here suggest in various ways, that we should shut up and let them do all the preaching) it would be before it was back to the old days of someone weeping about his abducted kids..'They must be atheists to have done this...' It was that admittedly overwrought outburst (from a Cuban) that has stuck in my mind and convinces me that we need to be militant, even for the sake of those who aren't inclined to help.
Point taken. I see you used the word 'indoctrination'. And I'm sure not surprised at that. I guess I see it as a rather harsh word and that's why I focus on 'taught'. I didn't feel, for example, while I was in grammar school that I was say in the gulag of religious instructon. I thought being in that kind of environment was very normal.
Not so much gulag. Indoctrination might be a little overly harsh, but what always strikes home to me is how this is forced upon or at least expected of a young child who wouldn't know any better or have a way to think and reason through it. At the young ages that children are involved in such things, the only info they have to go on is whatever is spoon fed them. And coming from parents who are deeply involved, this will invariably be focused solely on the positive aspects. So what child would say "No I'm not interested" to all the good things the religion supposedly provides for them?
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Originally Posted by travric
I'm way beyond the so-called 'age of reason' as it was termed in those younger days and have studied and experienced many disciplines but yet I've still retained those inner beliefs that were begun when I was a child. I have not deserted them.
Some do retain them, and some look around at things and abandon them. Or at least that's what I gather. I can't personally share that sort of experience as I've noted because I didn't have such an experience. What I wonder is, would you have found and still retain those beliefs if you did not have all that teaching when you were a child? Some may think that a rigorous exploration as an adult would be an equivalent, but I don't really think it is equivalent because you'd be starting from a different base of what seems normal.
I agree. The reason why I am militant - or at least active - is because I cannot trust others to respect my right NOT to believe. You will be aware of a VERY bad press and reputation that atheists have. Well, do you think it justified?
If not, how do you think we got it?
Yep. And how long do you think (if we did as many, many Christian posters here suggest in various ways, that we should shut up and let them do all the preaching) it would be before it was back to the old days of someone weeping about his abducted kids..'They must be atheists to have done this...' It was that admittedly overwrought outburst (from a Cuban) that has stuck in my mind and convinces me that we need to be militant, even for the sake of those who aren't inclined to help.
I think Atheists (we) bring on the bad press when we do things like erect huge billboards dissing Christmas for example. When we sue cities over a nativity scene on public property, etc.
I just don't pay attention to the nativity scene. The majority likes it and it really doesn't bother me.
I hate it when people act as if there's a law that says you should never be offended.
I watched as another Atheist got the entire community to hate Atheists because he stopped the annual Christmas concert from taking place at our local highschool. No one was forcing them to participate or attend it.
Those are all superfluous things....they aren't forcing it upon me. For the important things, I know I do have the law behind me to prevent it.
I'm possibly the worlds biggest Agnostic, so I guess it's easy for me to see both sides of the equation of whether or not to believe in God (any God, not just Christian).
To me, being Agnostic means that I am aware of what a small, insignificant creature that I am in the scope of space and time and that it would be incredibly presumptuous and arrogant of me to have an attitude that there is absolutely no higher power than myself in all the cosmos.
On the other hand, every religion of the world thinks that their view is the only right one and that everyone else on the planet is doomed, dammed or whatever.
So both of the extreme views on either side are just as arrogant and ignorant as the other....
Now, I can understand that the devout are motivated by their faith, but I've always wondered what motivates hardcore type Atheists to be so adamant in demanding a lack of exposure to any religious references or symbols in their daily lives.
What I'm talking about here are the Freedom From Religion Foundation types who want to sue somebody every time a nativity scene goes up at Christmas time and lobbying to get "in God we trust" removed from currency etc.
Do you really have nothing better to do?
Because to me, you are just as bad as the morons from the Westboro Baptist Church.
If society decided tomorrow that our laws and social morals will be dictated and revolve around Vampire lore, wouldn't you find that absurd? Wouldn't you say something? Most Atheist just want to be left alone, while religious organizations continue to try and inject their belief system in to law and government. Therefore Atheist have to be outspoken, otherwise, we are forced to adhere to some made up rules by a group of people who follow a mythological being. I continue to be bewildered why this concept is so lost on so called agnostic's, Christians, non-religious but believers, and the other countless belief systems. Atheist aren't getting upset at those for worshipping some made up entity. We get upset because these types try to force us to live by the rules in their book of fiction. When law's should be made based on morals, not a specific religion. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
If society decided tomorrow that our laws and social morals will be dictated and revolve around Vampire lore, wouldn't you find that absurd? Wouldn't you say something? Most Atheist just want to be left alone, while religious organizations continue to try and inject their belief system in to law and government. Therefore Atheist have to be outspoken, otherwise, we are forced to adhere to some made up rules by a group of people who follow a mythological being. I continue to be bewildered why this concept is so lost on so called agnostic's, Christians, non-religious but believers, and the other countless belief systems. Atheist are getting upset at those for worshipping some made up entity. We get upset because these types try to force us to live by the rules in their book of fiction. When law's should be made based on morals, not a specific religion. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
Although I am a pretty easy going Atheist, I give you kudos for the above.
I will draw the line against injection of religious beliefs into any public law.
If society decided tomorrow that our laws and social morals will be dictated and revolve around Vampire lore, wouldn't you find that absurd? Wouldn't you say something? Most Atheist just want to be left alone, while religious organizations continue to try and inject their belief system in to law and government. Therefore Atheist have to be outspoken, otherwise, we are forced to adhere to some made up rules by a group of people who follow a mythological being. I continue to be bewildered why this concept is so lost on so called agnostic's, Christians, non-religious but believers, and the other countless belief systems. Atheist aren't getting upset at those for worshipping some made up entity. We get upset because these types try to force us to live by the rules in their book of fiction. When law's should be made based on morals, not a specific religion. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
I had a christian co-worker who had to try to convince me that in spiste of my atheism I still follow judeo-christian beliefs because we adhere to the 10 Commandments. Not easy trying to explain to him that only half the laws are relevent and were part of a civilized moral society long before the non-existent tablets were never brought down from the mountain.
I've said before athesits are just as moral and civilized as anyone else and we do so not out of fear of eternal damnation or being rewarded in paradise post mortem.
I'm a straight guy, married with kids who happens to support marriage equality. Explain to me how in any state in this country a legislator has any kind of right to hold a bible in his hand and proclaim that book or their religion or beliefs defines marriage and not The Constitution???
You know i'd be curious and I apologize if this has been asked before. But for those of you who are 'atheist' did you come to it from childhood or did it come upon you as you lived life? When I say childhood, were you taught during that time to have an atheistic outlook?.
I was raised in a catholic family. But like most religions, I wouldn't say their actions were particuarly righteous. They drank, smoked, fooled around, pretty much talked poorly about everyone else on the planet. But they went to church . . . I went to a catholic school (free tuition, we were **** poor). Nothing made sense, not historically, not scientifically, nothing. Greek mythology, Roman Mythology, but the bible was true? Needless to say I didn't go to a catholic HS. In HS in the 70's for an Economics paper I actually wrote a paper on how religion is the biggest detriment to economic development and advancement in the world - I was ahead of Hitchens, Thank you.
Anyway, I really don't care how you want to spend your life. Please don't worry how I want to spend mine and please keep your beliefs out of where they don't belong.
Mangers and menorahs don't upset me, even on public grounds. Just not that important. And to rebut Linus from a 'Charlie Brown Christmas' I've read the bible and nowhere does it say Jesus hung up his stockings by the fireplace, there is no mention of Santa or his flying reindeer. You can have your religious Christmas just don't get all huffy about the 'real meaning' and try to spoil my over the top commercialized homage to consumerism. Spoiler alert - nobody got any chocolate bunnies in the biblical version of Easter.
I have kids of my own and they have never been to church and have been raised my way. Be moral, be respectful, enjoy life, live and let live. I've explained to them as best as I could what other religions believe and what I believe. Am I unbiased? Not really, that would be hypocritical.
Not so much gulag. Indoctrination might be a little overly harsh, but what always strikes home to me is how this is forced upon or at least expected of a young child who wouldn't know any better or have a way to think and reason through it. At the young ages that children are involved in such things, the only info they have to go on is whatever is spoon fed them. And coming from parents who are deeply involved, this will invariably be focused solely on the positive aspects. So what child would say "No I'm not interested" to all the good things the religion supposedly provides for them?
Well I'll just append to that something you'd know and that's when mommy and daddy did tell you what to do..i.e. hey stop running with the scissors you'll poke the eye out of yer head! Or 'eat your vegetables!' or 'don't talk back to me!' etc etc. Of course you listen to all the spoon-fed stuff. You take it in like a sponge.
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What I wonder is, would you have found and still retain those beliefs if you did not have all that teaching when you were a child?
I guess that's a hypothetical, isn't it? All I know is that my past to a certain extent has been instrumental in making me the individual I am today.
Arequipa
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I agree. The reason why I am militant - or at least active - is because I cannot trust others to respect my right NOT to believe.
Interesting. Ironically, you're no diffeent than the early Christians if we look at 'qualities' in the face of threat! ...i.e. St Arequipa...suffered and died at Split under the persecution of Diocletian...;-)....
And just a comment. I never did get appreciate the extent to which atheistic belief is sort of married to developing a defensive moat so to speak to guard as Arequipa noted the right NOT to believe.
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Indoctrination might be a little overly harsh, but what always strikes home to me is how this is forced upon or at least expected of a young child who wouldn't know any better or have a way to think and reason through it. At the young ages that children are involved in such things, the only info they have to go on is whatever is spoon fed them. And coming from parents who are deeply involved, this will invariably be focused solely on the positive aspects. So what child would say "No I'm not interested" to all the good things the religion supposedly provides for them?
