Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-07-2016, 11:38 PM
 
24 posts, read 74,605 times
Reputation: 56

Advertisements

Here's my reason: I know how we got here and why, and I'm pretty dang sure it's right.

13.7 billion years ago - Big Bang event creates universe in an unknown way. Some physicists think it happened spontaneously with no cause. I'm not confident in knowing how this actually happened.

4.54 billion years ago - Earth and moon form. This part isn't rocket science, if there is matter from collided asteroids or stardust, gravity can/will clump it into a ball. I'm not too knowledgeable on the exact process though but it's not hard to imagine how this happened naturally.

At least 3.7 billion years ago - First single cell life form appeared. Another current mystery in science. Many have plausible abiogenesis (origin of life) theories. I'm not confident in knowing how this actually happened at the molecular level.

From first single cell life form to present - Single cell life form evolves and branches off into many species, resulting in current day humans, snails, trees, ect. Why are you an atheist?

Last edited by YodaChoda7891; 07-08-2016 at 12:21 AM.. Reason: Shortened
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-08-2016, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,355,463 times
Reputation: 2610
Because even if they found proof that Jesus returned from the dead and walked on water, or that abiogenesis is impossible, or that some kind of patterns existed in the universe that necessitated it having been created by an intelligent organism, my reaction would probably not be "A god exists!" but instead "Hmm...I wonder why things are that way? Maybe Jesus was the son of God...or maybe Jesus was a powerful, but mortal, species of alien that visited Earth. Maybe life was created by a divine power...or maybe the universe is part of a computer program, again created by mortal, but powerful, extraterrestrials.

It just seems like believing in a divine power requires making a kind of intellectual leap of faith I have no interest in making, and could never see myself making in this life. Even if I heard a voice in my head that called itself Yahweh or Allah or Brahma and it gave me the powers to move mountains, I'd suspect that would just result in an endless string of more questions, rather than belief in a god.

It seems like a god is often described as beyond logic, divine, and perfect. How would I even know what I'm looking for with descriptions like that? If I found something that somehow seemed like that, I don't know why I'd assume it was a god. Maybe it's merely so different of a life form that it would seem like a god to us. I suspect I'd forever be wary of viewing something as perfect that, in actuality is imperfect, regardless of how wise or powerful it seems to be.

I could see myself getting perpetually closer and closer to belief...but I doubt I'd ever actually get there. The closest I'd get would be believing in some kind of organism with certain specific characteristics that gods are often described as having, or that was likely responsible for miracles documented in holy texts. I could see being accepting of other people defining that organism as a god, but I'm not sure I ever would. I'm not sure what could get me to believe it was some kind of perfect, divine organism.

edit: Actually I could see myself making the intellectual leap to believing in something I'd call a god, because that's what I did when I considered myself a deist, but if I remember correctly I knew I was making an intellectual leap on some level. I just didn't care.

I might be convinced into believing in a god...but I can't see it being a very devout belief.

Last edited by Clintone; 07-08-2016 at 01:14 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2016, 04:14 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,744,698 times
Reputation: 5930
The reason why I'm an atheist isn't the same as the rationale for being atheist. I was raised one. Neither of my parents believed, so I didn't either. It wasn't as though I haven't been exposed to religious salesmanship my entire life.

This fell into two questions: "Who made everything then?" That was quite an easy one as I liked astronomy and dinosaurs. Genesis just wasn't true.

And Jesus. Too much of the story was fantasy. The nativity especially, the walking on the water, the resurrection. It was a harder one as these were supposed to be eyewitness accounts. But there are quite a lot of claims and stories, not only in other religions but in the Occult and Flying saucers. Witnesses may not always agree, but witness can also tell tall stories.

In my teens, after I had spent some time in a church choir (and had not been impressed by the religion) I considered the questions seriously. "Who made everything, then" Had to answer 'Which god?" and I postulated an "agnostic -god" of all religions or none. The "God" of Einstein; the Mind that runs the universe, or at least, started it. I was Ok with that, and still am.

On the religion front, US evangelism had their chance. Like all the teens in the 60's I listened to pop music (1)and the only place to hear it was from Luxembourg. Yep, if you can believe it, Radio and TV had banned it. "BCM Ambassador" advertised on Radio Luxembourg with promises and threats about the Last days Armageddon and proofs of Prophecy (Tyre was particularly mentioned) and claims about Soviet Citizens secretly tuning in to hear "The Good News about the World Tomorrow". I sent for their stuff and said to myself, "We'll see". The predicted date (before 1970 - I still have their literature, somewhere) came and went, and so did they, confining themselves to peddling copies of what I call "Plain Lies" magazine. That was the end of the line for US evangelism for me. (2)

I was now deep in archaeology and when not digging up Belgic pottery, read about the cultures and religions of Egypt and Sumer and all the various beliefs. That not only made me realize just how many religions there had been but it also enabled me to handle the Gods from outer space craze that Dainiken set off and gave science a bad scare (3).
Two things started me travelling: I was tickled pink to find that, although the ancient cultures of Assyria and Rome were now at best ancient monuments, in the east, they still seemed to be alive.
And the question of a sortagod. While not being the god of any particular religion, wouldn't it want to get in touch with us? What was the way to do it? Prayer was the evident way, but not the "Please God, let my Boss die so I can get his Job" type of prayer, but a mental method of contact. I looked at Sufism and it was very much what I was looking for, but I couldn't take the Islamic trappings. Buddhism was close to that and it was even a backdoor into Hinduism without needing to worry about their odd gods.

So I gave Buddhism a go, even became a monk, mainly to please my Burmese wife. And in the course of that exciting mix of Burmese antiquity and a Burmese romance, l experienced two miracles: spontaneous healing and an answered prayer. Except it was a wrecked back that miraculously healed just as the doctor called and my job relocating to Wales enabling me to sell my mouldy London flat for enough to buy a 4 bedroom house here - just when I needed to have a house to enable Mrs Arq to get a UK residency visa. Of course, I wasn't praying either time, never mind to Biblegod, but it was a lesson of how coincidences can be made to look like evidence of answered prayer and miracles.

The final bit of the puzzle was when a Christian work colleague urged me to really read the Bible -especially the Jesus -story. So I did. I began by trying to sort out the contradictions: see what of the four accounts worked together, understandable slips aside and what can be regarded as really additions that can be set aside without affecting the validity of the whole (4). I took my findings back to him and first came across Atheist Axiom No 1: "Religion makes an honest person dishonest".

Peter was the nicest, most decent person I know (still a mate of mine) but the evasions, excuses and refusal to look at what was evident fact was a revelation. Finally he said I have to look at the "Big Picture".

"This IS the Big Picture."

I found out that what he meant was 'Never mind the evidence (5) Just have Faith".

That explained everything about religion just as my study had revealed the Truth about the Gospels. That added a whole new discipline to my disbelief and to my life. It sent me to the religion discussion online, and to logical reasoning. It led me to another discovery - that the UFO world was also based on Faith -thinking and uses the same methods.

So here I am, still atheist, and more firmly so than I ever was. The rationale - and sound it is - came later and mainly through questioning. But the reason I am atheist is that I was born and raised that way. That's why you need two things: a society that doesn't force religion on you in the home. And the evidence and rationale easily available when they try to force it on you outside the home. That is why I am a militant atheist and why calls for us to shut up and go away, go into the same bin as all the other religious and cultish garbage. I have seen it all before and you can't fool me.

(1) Though at school, we had been introduced to classical and "The Planets" had blown me away, I would not be hooked until (at age 17) I bought the first solid state stereo (still got it - and my valve radio, both still work) and the demo. record of the finale of Tchaikovsky's 4th made me realize what I had been missing.

(2) I'd also been looking at the claims of Prediction and took "Fate" magazine for a while. Some simple tests showed that it didn't work and there was a lot of frankly money -making swindling going on. That went in the same Bin as Revelation.

(3) in my 20's, I had met my best mate and he was into UFO's and he got me interested. At one time I was half convinced, though both he and I were aware of a LOT of tall tales and bullcrap in that area.

(4) The shekel -eating fish (Matth 17 24-27) is surely the touchstone example.

(5) only when you find out it doesn't support what you want to believe.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-08-2016 at 04:57 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2016, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
20,022 posts, read 13,496,411 times
Reputation: 9951
I'm a rationalist because I don't believe things that aren't substantiated (with actual, valid evidence) or at least logically arguable (according to rules of logical argument, not someone's random definition of "logical", which, for a theist, usually means "it's a thought that pleases, flatters or comforts me"). Atheism is just one consequence of my evidentiary standards.

As to why I'm an atheist specifically, it is only because I don't see any valid reason to believe in any deities. While the totality of scientific evidence about things like origins and evolution supports that, it's not really central to it. In principle my position would be the same even if this were 1750 and Darwin hadn't been born yet. In practice, if this were 1750 I would be so steeped in religion and irreligion would be so dangerous that the most I would be is a closet skeptic or maybe a deist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2016, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Florida
7,246 posts, read 7,083,322 times
Reputation: 17829
Simply put: there has been no evidence of any deity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2016, 09:02 AM
 
1,333 posts, read 884,076 times
Reputation: 615
If evidence arose for a deity, I'd question my sanity before the existence of a deity.
Because what's more likely?
I am nuts or there's a supreme being who has just been hiding away all this time and finally decided to pop out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2016, 09:20 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,092,120 times
Reputation: 2410
In my opinion, when a person feels an emptiness within himself, and he knows that this emptiness can only be filled with God, he goes out on a quest to find God. He knows that having faith in God is NOT bound to the oracle of physically seeing God.

("Seeing is believing" is flawed oracle anyway)

He uses his own intelligence and logic, and he looks for the signs of God and puts his faith to whatever holy text message talks to him.

I think there could be many Atheists who are those people who do NOT feel this emptiness. And if that works for them, then so be it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2016, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,342,749 times
Reputation: 3089
I was born an Atheist. My parents were weak Theists and unsuccessful at indoctrinating me.

I'm still an Atheist.

Fun fact: Evolution being a fact... whether it's true or not has no effect on my belief in a deity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2016, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,138,456 times
Reputation: 21239
I think that I am a reactive atheist. I was raised in an environment where the validity of Catholic doctrine was taken for granted. In my early to mid-teens I stopped taking it for granted and became interested in what formed the basis for its supposed validity. What I discovered was that it was pretty slim pickings, a collection of assertions which had morphed into traditions while being without any empirical basis for believing them to be true.

So, first I quit being a Catholic, and before long I had split from the entire god program as I learned that all the other religions had the same shaky foundations. Religions were lies and taking things on "faith" struck me as an unreasonable approach to truth seeking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2016, 11:14 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,744,698 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
In my opinion, when a person feels an emptiness within himself, and he knows that this emptiness can only be filled with God, he goes out on a quest to find God. He knows that having faith in God is NOT bound to the oracle of physically seeing God.

("Seeing is believing" is flawed oracle anyway)

He uses his own intelligence and logic, and he looks for the signs of God and puts his faith to whatever holy text message talks to him.

I think there could be many Atheists who are those people who do NOT feel this emptiness. And if that works for them, then so be it.
I think I know about this "Emptiness" and understand it; so it loses its' power.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:09 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top