Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What I find most odd about Mystic's post (that you replied to) is his comment that, "You are oblivious to the impact that your unsupported and unsupportable premises have on the logic you pretend to rely on. You need a serious course in logic, Arq, because your little bit of knowledge is just enough to confuse you. You take as "Given" things that you cannot legitimately take as "Given" but you seem completely unaware of why you can't. It seems hopeless".
I don't see much of what he says as being "supported" by anything other than his own logic. He has a right to his opinions...which is what he sees as logic. And I guess he has a right to his continued insults of other posters.
One of the many posts I wrote and deleted, today. I just suggest that you have an extended discussion with Mystic. You will need no further input from me.
There is no way to prove one way or the other, so I am in a state of admitting I don't know. I can't prove either way, that's the point of my posts today.
Just for the sake of argument though, give me a real world example where something came from nothing. I'm talking on the order of a rock or some object, or even a living organism materializing out of thin air with absolutely no ties to anything existing before it to explain it. Just one, single example.
A new voice. How nice.
Well, you are right - we don't know. And you are right. something coming from nothing is not what seems to happen in the world. Mind you, there are virtual particles, so for all we know matter -making may be going on all the time and we never noticed. Remember, science doesn't Yet know everything.
There is also the matter of the cosmos being very different before the universe came to be. It can't be ruled out that such conditions could have produced matter from nothing in a way that seems impossible to us now. We just don't know.
On the other hand a complex planning mind that would have produced all that out of nothing - how could that have always existed? Or how could it have come from nothing? I have to say that seems more counter intuitive than ver proto -ish matter gradually forming out of Nothing.
There is no way to prove one way or the other, so I am in a state of admitting I don't know. I can't prove either way, that's the point of my posts today.
Fine. Then there is every possibility that the universe masy have always been ther in some form or other.
Quote:
Just for the sake of argument though, give me a real world example where something came from nothing. I'm talking on the order of a rock or some object, or even a living organism materializing out of thin air with absolutely no ties to anything existing before it to explain it. Just one, single example.
I can't give you one but I am not saying that the universe came from nothing. I'm suggesting that it may always have existed in some form or other. You are claiming that the universe could not have come from nothing. I'm suggesting that it doesn't have to have 'come' from anywhere. It may always have been there.
It's not possible for something to have always existed, at least that modern science can prove. Nobody can prove how this is possible, not even you. The idea that a God that has always existed created the universe is no less believable than that the universe always existed.
Complex, intelligent beings do not simply exist, therefore a first cause creator god must be most improbable. Which makes the alternative that you dismissed without evidence more probable.
Do you often get this eye problem when you do not understand how the mathematics works?
So your arguement is that it didn't come from nothing, because it has always been. No beginning, no end, and that's your explanation. Counter to most astronomers and scientists who date the universe at 13.7 billion years of age, but I'm sure you are smarter. I think this theory is no more believable than a creator or that it came from nothing, the only thing I know for sure is that anyone who thinks they know the answer is fooling themselves.
There is no way to prove one way or the other, so I am in a state of admitting I don't know. I can't prove either way, that's the point of my posts today.
Just for the sake of argument though, give me a real world example where something came from nothing. I'm talking on the order of a rock or some object, or even a living organism materializing out of thin air with absolutely no ties to anything existing before it to explain it. Just one, single example.
Or a Supreme All-Powerful Being just always existing somehow with no explanation? That's a great question.
So your arguement is that it didn't come from nothing, because it has always been. No beginning, no end, and that's your explanation. Counter to most astronomers and scientists who date the universe at 13.7 billion years of age, but I'm sure you are smarter.
What astronomers and scientists say is that the universe that we know, that would be the present one, is 13.7 million years old. We know that this present universe has a beginning but it does not follow that there was 'nothing' there before. Look up 'Big Bounce' as an example.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I just suggest that you have an extended discussion with Mystic. You will need no further input from me.
