The Fool hath said in his heart 'there is no god.' (priests, punishment)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
God is perfect. We would be perfect had it not been for Adam and Eve and their sin. A person is perfected in Jesus. When you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you become perfect. We continue to sin because we are human, but are forgiven through Christ - and His work is to make us perfect day by day.
Apologetic spin, you "get saved" and get the holy spook yet nothing changes? And this holy spook is supposed to be gawd indwelling you. So if I understand it right, looking t the myriad of interpretations of your mythical buybull, there are more than one version of your holy spook right?
Quote:
God heals everyone that is healed. Through Doctors, medicine, etc.
Doctors and medicines have nothing to do with your gawd.
Quote:
You may see very well, but you are spiritually blind. If you are ever a "true" Christian, you don't ever become a non-Christian. What made you want to say you are not a Christian anymore?
True Scotsman fallacy? I suppose being a P&W leader means I was not a TC either? What made me say, well I studied the buybull and history and came away with the conclusion it is all lies plus observance by the "jesus as a crutch" folk. All just deflection for s#!t that went wrong in their lives.
Quote:
Yes, I admit I have many needs. Jesus meets all my needs. And I am special in that I am heir to His kingdom - that should make anybody feel special.
Glad you are happy
Quote:
I'm sorry that you didn't get what you needed. Tee shirts have nothing to do with being Christian.
I assume you do not understand "got the tee shirt" phrase no do you?
Quote:
Spending eternity in hell with friends will not be better, believe me. And, heaven and hell are real, too sad you will find out the hard way.
There is no hell or heaven, when you die you become fertilizer (or ash if cremated).
I know all this because I have studied the Bible, I have read many Christian books, and I have heard it from others, that is true. And, I have experienced it.
How do you know what you know?
"you have studied the bible" meaning you believe what people have written.
"you have read Christian books" meaning you believe what people have written.
"you have heard it from others" meaning you believe what people tell you.
"you have experienced it" meaning you have been to heaven and heard God tell you these things in person??
Apologetic spin, you "get saved" and get the holy spook yet nothing changes?
Everything changes. You get the Spirit of God indwelling in you. You are guaranteed a place in heaven and you start desiring to be like Jesus. Jesus was all good, why wouldn't everyone want to be like Him?
Quote:
And this holy spook is supposed to be gawd indwelling you. So if I understand it right, looking t the myriad of interpretations of your mythical buybull, there are more than one version of your holy spook right?
It might be mythical to you, apparently you are not His child, and as for the more than one versions - there is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It is called the Holy Trinity. (I thought you said you had been a Christian? Every Christian knows this).
Quote:
Doctors and medicines have nothing to do with your gawd.
And you know this how? God created everything, people, animals, doctors and medicine.
Quote:
True Scotsman fallacy? I suppose being a P&W leader means I was not a TC either? What made me say, well I studied the buybull and history and came away with the conclusion it is all lies plus observance by the "jesus as a crutch" folk. All just deflection for s#!t that went wrong in their lives.
I'm not sure what P&W means - Praise and Worship? And you were not a Total Conversion? I'm sorry you have such a distasteful view of Christianity. I have studied the Bible and found it to be true. Archaeologists support what the Bible says in many instances. There is historical evidence outside of the Bible that Jesus existed. One example of many, where critics refuted what was in the Bible, later discovered by archaeologists to be true.
The digging by archaeologists in the remains of past civilizations increase our understanding of the way things were in ancient times. The archaeological record repeatedly backs up what was written in the Bible. Sometimes, archaeology has even vindicated the Bible against its critics.
For example, Daniel says the last ruler in Babylon before it fell to the Persians was named Belshazzar. (Daniel 5:1-30) Since at that time no mention of Belshazzar had been found outside the Bible, the charge was made that the Bible was wrong and Belshazzar never existed. But in 1853, archaeologists discovered small clay cylinders at Ur in southern Iraq inscribed with accounts of the rebuilding of Ur’s ziggurat by King Nabonidus. The inscriptions concluded with prayers for Nabonidus’ health—and for his eldest son and co-regent, Belshazzar! (Page 54 of The Bible and Archaeology, by Sir Frederic Kenyon.)
This relationship between Belshazzar and his father, Nabonidus, explains why Belshazzar, during that final banquet in Babylon, offered to make Daniel the third ruler in the kingdom. (Daniel 5:16) Since Nabonidus was the first ruler, Belshazzar himself was only the second ruler of Babylon. Daniel could then be the third ruler.
I do get a kick out of findings that prove Bible people and places true, but I don't require them. Jesus relied on the historical records in the Bible and that is good enough for me.
Quote:
Glad you are happy
I'm sad that you didn't believe.
Quote:
I assume you do not understand "got the tee shirt" phrase no do you?
No, I have no idea what you are trying to say. That it doesn't mean anything to you?
Quote:
There is no hell or heaven, when you die you become fertilizer (or ash if cremated).
Again, you know this how? What a hopeless view. One thing for sure. If you just happened to be right, (which I have no doubt that you're not), I have lost nothing. If I am right, (which I have every confidence that I am), you have lost everything.
Something to think about.
"you have studied the bible" meaning you believe what people have written.
People inspired by God. Big difference. Do you "not" believe anything a person has written?
Quote:
"you have read Christian books" meaning you believe what people have written.
You've repeated yourself, and yes.
Quote:
"you have heard it from others" meaning you believe what people tell you.
I don't believe everything people tell me - only that which agrees with the Bible and what I have come to understand.
Do you not believe anybody?
Quote:
"you have experienced it" meaning you have been to heaven and heard God tell you these things in person??
Now where did I say I had been to heaven? I have experienced the power of Jesus in my life. You don't have to make a trip to heaven to have a relationship with Christ. He speaks to me through many sources.
And, you conveniently didn't tell me "How you know what you know".
Weren't you raised and taught by your parents? PEOPLE
Went to school and learned from teachers? PEOPLE?
Read the newspapers, watch the news written and gathered by PEOPLE
Read history books and other learning material written by PEOPLE?
People inspired by God. Big difference. Do you "not" believe anything a person has written?
You've repeated yourself, and yes.
I don't believe everything people tell me - only that which agrees with the Bible and what I have come to understand.
Do you not believe anybody?
Now where did I say I had been to heaven? I have experienced the power of Jesus in my life. You don't have to make a trip to heaven to have a relationship with Christ. He speaks to me through many sources.
And, you conveniently didn't tell me "How you know what you know".
Weren't you raised and taught by your parents? PEOPLE
Went to school and learned from teachers? PEOPLE?
Read the newspapers, watch the news written and gathered by PEOPLE
Read history books and other learning material written by PEOPLE?
So, what is your point?
[*]
You only listen and agree when it goes along with the bible. That SAYS IT ALL. No point trying to explain anything to people who wont look past their nose.
People inspired by God. Big difference. Do you "not" believe anything a person has written?
You've repeated yourself, and yes.
I don't believe everything people tell me - only that which agrees with the Bible and what I have come to understand.
Don't you see the problem here? You only believe people when it coincides with the bible. But people wrote the bible too, so you are only believing people who say what those people who wrote the bible say.
How do you know it was inspired by god?
Quote:
Do you not believe anybody?
Not 100% on faith based on my own desire for mythology to be true, no.
Quote:
Now where did I say I had been to heaven? I have experienced the power of Jesus in my life. You don't have to make a trip to heaven to have a relationship with Christ. He speaks to me through many sources.
You were explaining details of heaven, and said you knew about it because you had the experience. That's why I asked if you've been to heaven. How does Jesus talk to you? Surely there must be "non-people" sources.
Quote:
And, you conveniently didn't tell me "How you know what you know".
Weren't you raised and taught by your parents? PEOPLE
Went to school and learned from teachers? PEOPLE?
Read the newspapers, watch the news written and gathered by PEOPLE
Read history books and other learning material written by PEOPLE?
So, what is your point?[*]
Ya, but again I don't take things at face value and believe everything people say just because I want to. I don't just trust things that people say, I look into things myself.
I guess this would be like you getting "non-people" sources that the bible was true. So again, how does Jesus tell you these things exactly?
The digging by archaeologists in the remains of past civilizations increase our understanding of the way things were in ancient times. The archaeological record repeatedly backs up what was written in the Bible. Sometimes, archaeology has even vindicated the Bible against its critics.
What about the archaeology that shows the Bible to be wrong?
Quote:
For example, Daniel says the last ruler in Babylon before it fell to the Persians was named Belshazzar.
The book of Daniel is history not prophecy. It was written between 168-164 BCE.
"The text contains a number of Greek words; yet the Greek occupation of the area did not occur until the 4th century BCE.
One of the musical instruments mentioned in Daniel 3:5 and in subsequent passages did not exist until developed in 2nd century BCE Greece.
Daniel 1:4 refers to the "Chaldeans" as a priestly class in Babylon. This term did not attain this meaning until much later than the 6th century.
About 180 BCE, Jeshua ben Sira listed the heroes of the Jewish faith, including "Enoch, Noah and Abraham through to Nehemiah;" 2 Daniel is not mentioned - presumably because Jeshua is unaware of him. This would indicate that the book of Daniel was written after that time.
Chapter 12 discusses the dead being resurrected, judged, and taken to either heaven and hell. At the time of Daniel, the Jews believed that all persons went to Sheol after death. The concept of heaven and hell was introduced centuries later by the Greeks. It did not appear in Israel until the time of the Maccabean revolt.
Daniel 11:31 (and elsewhere) refers to "the abominable thing that causes desolation." This appears to refer to the erection of a statue of Zeus in the Jerusalem temple in 167 BCE, and would indicate that the book was written later than that date.
Prior to Daniel 11:40, the author(s) has been recording past events under the Babylonian, Median, Persian and Greek empires. In Daniel 11:40-45, he really attempts to predict the future. He prophesizes that a king of the south (of the Ptolemaic dynasty) will attack the Greeks in Palestine, under Antiochus. The Greeks will win, will lay spoil to all of northeast Africa, and return to Palestine where Antiochus will die. The end of history will then occur. The author(s) appeared to be a poor psychic because none of these events actually happened. Antiochus did die in 164 BCE, but it was in Persia. Thus, the book was apparently completed before 164."
Everything changes. You get the Spirit of God indwelling in you. You are guaranteed a place in heaven and you start desiring to be like Jesus. Jesus was all good, why wouldn't everyone want to be like Him?
While I am open to the possibility of a historical Jesus, IMO he was nothing like xianty has made him out to be. How can you desire to be like someone that is mentioned in 4 synoptic gospels that do not even seem to agree with one another? IMO you are merely taking what you have been taught and connecting the dots of what you have read in the buybull. Sure Jesus may have been "all good" but so too have been many other folk in history.
Quote:
It might be mythical to you, apparently you are not His child, and as for the more than one versions - there is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It is called the Holy Trinity. (I thought you said you had been a Christian? Every Christian knows this).
The trinity is a man-made concept circa 400CE with the Nicene creed. Jesus and much of the NT suggest he was no more than the son of god.
Quote:
And you know this how? God created everything, people, animals, doctors and medicine.
In your opinion. I am sure that much medicine today was not discovered by divine intervention. Were your gawd so powerful and omni-everything, a simple healing prayer should do the trick and zappo, it should be cured. Sadly science and medicine realised that this "healing" power of gawd seems to not work.
Quote:
I'm not sure what P&W means - Praise and Worship? And you were not a Total Conversion? I'm sorry you have such a distasteful view of Christianity. I have studied the Bible and found it to be true. Archaeologists support what the Bible says in many instances. There is historical evidence outside of the Bible that Jesus existed. One example of many, where critics refuted what was in the Bible, later discovered by archaeologists to be true.
Yes P&W is correct as you interpreted it. One does not get the position of P&W leader in a church if they think you are not a true xian(tm)
Quote:
I'm sad that you didn't believe.
I did but then I came to my senses
Quote:
No, I have no idea what you are trying to say. That it doesn't mean anything to you?
Got the tee shirt, been there, done that, know all about that/it geddit?
Quote:
Again, you know this how? What a hopeless view. One thing for sure. If you just happened to be right, (which I have no doubt that you're not), I have lost nothing. If I am right, (which I have every confidence that I am), you have lost everything.
See one of the things that turned me away was when my father died of Alzheimer's after nearly 60 years faithful dedicated service to teh lawd. What was his sin that he had to die such an undignified death? Oh and BTW all his brothers had it too and died like muppets in nappies (mostly in homes - I however cared for him till he died).
You only listen and agree when it goes along with the bible. That SAYS IT ALL. No point trying to explain anything to people who wont look past their nose.
You misunderstood my statement. The person I was debating with said:
"you have heard it from others" meaning you believe what people tell you."
I was referring to spiritual matters. His statement really didn't elaborate but since we were discussing Christianity, I assumed that is what he/she meant. And yes, if we are discussing spiritual matters, I defer to what the Bible says. However, I actually have a very open mind on other matters.
So, tell me, what were going to try and explain to me?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
