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I'm certainly not asking you to. I enjoy a day off, turkey and football as much as anyone. It's just that we Indians have a bit of a different take on Thanksgiving than the rest of America. I think it is important that people know and remember what happened after that first Thanksgiving.
Agreed . . . but debasing a National celebration by either whining about it or suggesting it is inappropriate or otherwise proclaiming it "offends" anyone is not the way to do that!
Waa, Waa, Waa . . . I live in America a nation founded by religious puritans . . . Waa, Waa, Waa . . . so we have these awful National Holidays with religious origins (like the country) . . . Waa, Waa, Waaaaa!!! When are we going to change our history and get rid of these horrid religious origins?
I'm personally not sure how much effort really needs to be put into this. There are some battles worth fighting and there are some battles that just aren't worth the time and frustration.
Whether we like it or not, the Pilgrims came here for a variety of different reasons. However, one of the biggest reasons they came here was to escape a very persecutory England hellbent on punishing (even killing, in some cases) those who did not adhere to the state-promoted religious doctrine. There is no denying that.
To only allow the parts of the Pilgrim History into our textbooks (and coloring books ) that fails to make mention of the main reason they came here is to do a great injustice to our students in a nation that already has severe problems with academics.
In particular, the section of the coloring book that said, and I quote, "The Pilgrims thanked God for the harvest," is probably very historically accurate. After all, what do you think they did before the harvest? Run around naked like a bunch of free-spirited hippies while delighting in a massive orgy in front of their Native American friends? Yes, it's probably very true that they prayed to God before they ate. We can't change history and we shouldn't change history for our own convenience. There is, in my opinion, a grave danger in doing that. In fact, I consider it to be far more dangerous than having the mere mention of God mentioned in a coloring book.
If you ask me, a better way to go about this would be to ask the school to teach the whole history of what the Pilgrims did. If you're really hellbent on making a point, ask the school to have a coloring book full of Native Americans with smallpox and measles. Ask them to provide a coloring book full of the Pilgrim's extraordinarily fanatical religious beliefs and how they used it to try and "Christianize" the whole of the Native American population.
In short, don't ask to deny history because it is offensive but surely encourage the whole of history to be taught. The version of Thanksgiving we currently celebrate is largely lost to fabled historical events that are highly sugarcoated. I would be more upset that the school isn't teaching what really happened with the Pilgrims - not that they prayed to God - but because their belief bolstered their sense of righteousness to do what they did down the road.
I never said I was going to say anything to the school. I didn't went she brought home worksheets that say "Angels watch over us." and "Helping hands fold in prayer.", I didn't when her teacher read David and the Goliath to the class. I didn't when her teacher gave out "Smile, God Loves You!" cards, and I'm not over these.
Pure self-righteous claptrap. Just exactly what horrendous CURRENT injustice are you pretending to be seeking to eradicate by attacking our positive National Holiday celebrations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Yes it is an attack on an ideal that promotes a positive view to influence future events.To eradicate the TRUTH of the beginning because of what later resulted is the worst of revisionist PC BS. Do you seriously maintain that in the beginning there actually was "enmity" and not friendliness? Is that the TRUTH you would honor and celebrate? That we screwed it up big time has no relevance to the historical event being celebrated. So-called truth-mongers selectively choose which truths to emphasize that serve their agenda. What agenda does your truth serve today and for the future, cleatis?
And as I said. It's fine to hold a positive view, It's great. But also as I said there is no possible way to deny that the ugly side of these events had just as large, or maybe even a larger effect than the clean and neat side that we are supposed to cling to. I'm not attacking the promotion of something positive, but very little of what went on was positive. Say for a moment there was a lot of positive to come from it. Where are the red savages at our thanksgiving table now? Is there a nice Indian fellow that sits at the end of your Thanksgiving table? What about anyone that you know, do they have a nice Indian fellow that sits at their thanksgiving table?
Shouldn't it say something - this is supposed to be a reflection of these positive relations, then why is it that Natives don't break bread with us on Thanksgiving? Why don't all the reservations have little craft turkey decorations and cranberry salad every thanksgiving?
Is it because they're "So-called truth-mongers" who "selectively choose which truths to emphasize that serve their agenda" Are they spouting "self-righteous claptrap" is that why? Like I said before, why don't you waltz onto a reservation with your little bullhorn and tell these people the same thing.... tell them how it offends you and hurts your feelings that they aren't respecting the real heritage of America.
And as I said. It's fine to hold a positive view, It's great. But also as I said there is no possible way to deny that the ugly side of these events had just as large, or maybe even a larger effect than the clean and neat side that we are supposed to cling to. I'm not attacking the promotion of something positive, but very little of what went on was positive. Say for a moment there was a lot of positive to come from it. Where are the red savages at our thanksgiving table now? Is there a nice Indian fellow that sits at the end of your Thanksgiving table? What about anyone that you know, do they have a nice Indian fellow that sits at their thanksgiving table?
Shouldn't it say something - this is supposed to be a reflection of these positive relations, then why is it that Natives don't break bread with us on Thanksgiving? Why don't all the reservations have little craft turkey decorations and cranberry salad every thanksgiving?
Is it because they're "So-called truth-mongers" who "selectively choose which truths to emphasize that serve their agenda" Are they spouting "self-righteous claptrap" is that why? Like I said before, why don't you waltz onto a reservation with your little bullhorn and tell these people the same thing.... tell them how it offends you and hurts your feelings that they aren't respecting the real heritage of America.
I said I would not defend the indefensible actions of our ancestors and I meant it. My beef is with today and the debasing of National Holiday celebrations .Do we use the occasion of our birthday celebrations to air all our dirty laundry and grievances from our past . . . or do we celebrate our birthday!!! PC sucks . . . and its adherents are rude offensive and obnoxious rabble-rousing spoilers. If there are itches that you want scratched pick the appropriate time and venue where something could at least theoretically be done about it!
Do we use the occasion of our birthday celebrations to air all our dirty laundry and grievances from our past . . . or do we celebrate our birthday!!!
That makes me think of the Seinfeld episode with the Costanza's celebration of "Festivus".
Frank Constanza: "The tradition of Festivus begins with the Airing of Grievances. I got a lot of problems with you people! And now, you're gonna hear about it!"
You don't have to. But the rest of us who don't believe in your myth of choice shouldn't have to have our children indoctrinated with it at PUBLIC school. Teach your kids what you want about religion in your own home; it doesn't belong in our schools. You want it taught in your kid's school, then pay to send their little butts to a parochial school.
OH REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! INDOCTRINATION you say??? OK!!!! Me thinks you don't know what the word means..........how about all this global warming and green crap being forced onto our children now in the public schools!!!!......NOW THAT'S A MYTH!!!!!!.......INDOCTRINATION by the radical left wingers like you............the ones who do not believe in God....(I'll pray for you as you'll need it on judgment day partner, for calling the Bible and it's teachings a 'myth').......you all love homosexuals and their disgusting lifestyles (now providing textbooks in public schools about same sex marriage and their families).........you love killing unborn babies (and also are now providing condoms in the public school nurses offices, which simply says, "Go have sex children, just wear a condom!"....no moral teachings, just HAVE FUN, DO WHATEVER, TOLERANCE!!!!)........you want government control over every aspect of our lives..........you want America to become socialist.......you love your boy in the White House because his agenda is the same as yours.........SOCIALISM! Indoctrination you say???? If my children would have been one of those that I've recently heard on the media being forced to sing the PRAISES to the Messiah Obama during a school PTA meeting, I would have gladly marched up to the stage, pulled my child out of the 'chorus line', and headed straight for the exit.....never to return to that school........BECAUSE I HAVE A CHOICE.........but who knows for how long I have this choice.........if your Messiah and his cronies continue the downfall of America, none of us will have a choice in anything....don't you libs understand this!!.....but as long as I do have choice, I'm using it.........so if you have a problem with the Bible Belt, and their courageous display of God and prayer in their public schools (which our country was FOUNDED ON!!!), then just get your kid the crap out of there! Maybe you could put them in the same private school that all the Washington elites have their kids in........ (yup! your liberal congress and senate and your president all send their kids to PRIVATE SCHOOLS buddy!!) You liberals disgust me.....wake up and see what's happening! I CAN HARDLY WAIT FOR THE 2010 ELECTIONS....OH, AND BY THE WAY..........HOW'S THAT "HOPE AND CHANGE WORKING FOR YAH???"
OH REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! INDOCTRINATION you say??? OK!!!! Me thinks you don't know what the word means..........how about all this global warming and green crap being forced onto our children now in the public schools!!!!......NOW THAT'S A MYTH!!!!!!.......INDOCTRINATION by the radical left wingers like you............the ones who do not believe in God....(I'll pray for you as you'll need it on judgment day partner, for calling the Bible and it's teachings a 'myth').......you all love homosexuals and their disgusting lifestyles (now providing textbooks in public schools about same sex marriage and their families).........you love killing unborn babies (and also are now providing condoms in the public school nurses offices, which simply says, "Go have sex children, just wear a condom!"....no moral teachings, just HAVE FUN, DO WHATEVER, TOLERANCE!!!!)........you want government control over every aspect of our lives..........you want America to become socialist.......you love your boy in the White House because his agenda is the same as yours.........SOCIALISM! Indoctrination you say???? If my children would have been one of those that I've recently heard on the media being forced to sing the PRAISES to the Messiah Obama during a school PTA meeting, I would have gladly marched up to the stage, pulled my child out of the 'chorus line', and headed straight for the exit.....never to return to that school........BECAUSE I HAVE A CHOICE.........but who knows for how long I have this choice.........if your Messiah and his cronies continue the downfall of America, none of us will have a choice in anything....don't you libs understand this!!.....but as long as I do have choice, I'm using it.........so if you have a problem with the Bible Belt, and their courageous display of God and prayer in their public schools (which our country was FOUNDED ON!!!), then just get your kid the crap out of there! Maybe you could put them in the same private school that all the Washington elites have their kids in........ (yup! your liberal congress and senate and your president all send their kids to PRIVATE SCHOOLS buddy!!) You liberals disgust me.....wake up and see what's happening! I CAN HARDLY WAIT FOR THE 2010 ELECTIONS....OH, AND BY THE WAY..........HOW'S THAT "HOPE AND CHANGE WORKING FOR YAH???"
Okay, first of all take a chill pill and use your mouse to gently click the BOLD button off. Secondly, proceed to try to use something resembling sentence structure and paragraphing in order to make your post more readable. What you've got there makes me want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon.
Thirdly, you're making assumptions about me. I'm not a left-winger liberal and I'm not a conservative either. I don't believe Obama is a messiah, because I don't believe in messiahs of any kind.
Fourthly, learn your American history. This country was not founded on Christian principles.
And as for all that other ranting, raving lunacy in there...I won't even address that because your text and formatting is making my eyes bleed. If you'd actually like to know what my political opinions are, feel free to ask instead of randomly accuse. But kindly insert some proper punctuation and turn the bold off if you want to be taken seriously instead of looked upon as just another religious lunatic.
As far as the subject matter of the thread goes, have you read any of it, or did you just see the title and the fact that it's in the atheism forum and start running off wildly ranting without reading what we've already said?
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Right on!
) that fails to make mention of the main reason they came here is to do a great injustice to our students in a nation that already has severe problems with academics. 
