Who thinks the MARTA should be expanded to include Cobb,Gwinnett, and the other metro Atlanta counties? (Douglas: sales, construction)

[wxjay]

Originally Posted by Norlan

The problem is, the company itself lacks of funding, and as a taxpayer myself, I don't want to be taxed more than what I already am.

How do you plan on paying for road repairs then? You think the government magically makes that money? It comes from taxes, and as the price of gas goes up, you'll be paying a lot more money out of pocket for that expense.

[turtlemom]

WXJAY said:

Grow up. We have significant problems with transportation and quality of life in metro Atlanta, and comments like this are stupid, unnecessary, and frankly ignorant.

I've probably lived in and around Atlanta a couple decades longer than you and remember when MARTA was well run, clean and attractive. More people per population rode it then than now.

And, yes, management is a huge part of it. It takes people who understand transit and transportation needs, not disgruntled riders, to make a transit company function well. One of my XH's uncles consulted to MARTA back in the 60's. He warned then of most of the problems we are experiencing now. The remedies he, in his 30 years experience in transit, suggested were rejected. We are reaping what the MARTA board, in it's arrogance, sowed.

If I "grow up" much more, I'll be a nonagenarian.

[wxjay]

^You can be upset with MARTA and its management. But to claim that homeless people are dragged in to manage it? That's unnecessary and unproductive.

[turtlemom]

Originally Posted by wxjay

^You can be upset with MARTA and its management. But to claim that homeless people are dragged in to manage it? That's unnecessary and unproductive.

Not a claim. It happened. Check your history - look at MARTA Board composition in the mid - late 90's. It's no secret. And the point that totally incompetent people have been on the MARTA Board IS necessary to make, and can be productive. It points to the FACTS that such Board members do not help, and that different selections must be made in the future.

Currently there are very hard decisions to be made - and those decisions require knowledge and experience, not "feel-good" emotional responses.

Your uneducated attacks on people for expressing their knowledge-based opinions is pretty silly.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by turtlemom

WXJAY said:



I've probably lived in and around Atlanta a couple decades longer than you and remember when MARTA was well run, clean and attractive. More people per population rode it then than now.

And, yes, management is a huge part of it. It takes people who understand transit and transportation needs, not disgruntled riders, to make a transit company function well. One of my XH's uncles consulted to MARTA back in the 60's. He warned then of most of the problems we are experiencing now. The remedies he, in his 30 years experience in transit, suggested were rejected. We are reaping what the MARTA board, in it's arrogance, sowed.

If I "grow up" much more, I'll be a nonagenarian.

I don't doubt that Marta's board has made mistakes over the years but to lay all of the blame on Marta in a region so wholly devoted to the automobile doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I do think as someone mentioned, perhaps in another thread, that people that have been here longer tend to hold on to old perceptions from the 80's/90's and prior years that really no longer apply.

In 2008, Marta's ridership is soaring. Not only this year, but '07 and '06 saw double-digit percentage-wise growth in rail passengers. Gas prices and the resurgent city population have had a huge impact on ridership and those trends show no sign of changing. Imagine how that improve when more of the metro actually participates in a transit system.

Even with all of its limitations Marta ranks 9th in ridership after systems in Boston, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, LA, DC and two in the NYC area. Thats not bad for a sunbelt sprawlopolis.

[PeteyNice]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Even with all of its limitations Marta ranks 9th in ridership after systems in Boston, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, LA, DC and two in the NYC area. Thats not bad for a sunbelt sprawlopolis.

That is what one would expect. The Atlanta MSA is the 8th largest in the country. It stands to reason that MARTA would be around 8th in ridership. This will change though. Dallas continues expand their DART system and even Houston is investing more in transit than Atlanta right now. Atlanta will be out of the Top 10 soon unless a real investment is made.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by PeteyNice

That is what one would expect. The Atlanta MSA is the 8th largest in the country. It stands to reason that MARTA would be around 8th in ridership. This will change though. Dallas continues expand their DART system and even Houston is investing more in transit than Atlanta right now. Atlanta will be out of the Top 10 soon unless a real investment is made.

Two things:

First, that statistic is concerning MARTA alone, not the Atlanta MSA.

Secondly, combined transit ridership (all modes) for Atlanta's MSA is 40% more than in Houston and 73% more than in Dallas despite both being larger than Atlanta. Apparently they should be investing more in transit.

You actually help make my point for me. Despite all of Marta's limitations and past mistakes, Atlanta is (according to you) about where it should be in terms of transit ridership and thats primarily because of Marta.

Source: APTA

[PeteyNice]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Two things:

First, that statistic is concerning MARTA alone, not the Atlanta MSA.

Secondly, combined transit ridership (all modes) for Atlanta's MSA is 40% more than in Houston and 73% more than in Dallas despite both being larger than Atlanta. Apparently they should be investing more in transit.

You actually help make my point for me. Despite all of Marta's limitations and past mistakes, Atlanta is (according to you) about where it should be in terms of transit ridership and thats primarily because of Marta.

Source: APTA

It is "where it should be" because outside of the Northeast, Chicago and maybe parts of CA transit in this country is a joke. And you are talking strict ridership in those numbers. Unless you are Detroit where transit is really eschewed you will see those rankings track closely to population since you have more people to ride it.

Dallas and Houston are investing in and expanding their transit systems. This does not happen overnight.

Here is Dallas' 2030 master plan.
DART.org - DART 2030 Transit System Plan

And they are executing it!

Houston has a plan too, but their website sucks and it is difficult to understand:

http://www.2035plan.org

To sum up. Ridership numbers should track population numbers closely. Cities near Atlanta in population but with lower transit numbers are heavily investing in their transit systems and will overtake Atlanta in the mid to long term. In contrast, MARTA has no concrete plans for expansion within its service area.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by PeteyNice

It is "where it should be" because outside of the Northeast, Chicago and maybe parts of CA transit in this country is a joke. And you are talking strict ridership in those numbers. Unless you are Detroit where transit is really eschewed you will see those rankings track closely to population since you have more people to ride it.

Dallas and Houston are investing in and expanding their transit systems. This does not happen overnight.

Here is Dallas' 2030 master plan.
DART.org - DART 2030 Transit System Plan

And they are executing it!

Houston has a plan too, but their website sucks and it is difficult to understand:

http://www.2035plan.org

To sum up. Ridership numbers should track population numbers closely. Cities near Atlanta in population but with lower transit numbers are heavily investing in their transit systems and will overtake Atlanta in the mid to long term. In contrast, MARTA has no concrete plans for expansion within its service area.

Well the thread is about Marta and the point of the Marta ridership ranking I posted was to illustrate that its not as ineffective as it is being portrayed. So once again, you're helping me make that point.

I can't see into the future to know how transit ridership will look down the road but as of today Dallas and Houston have a lot of catching up to do. You seem to be assuming that in the next 20-25 years there will be zero transit expansion in Atlanta and given current trends, that is highly unlikely. In fact the GA DOT is currently working on the region's first commuter line which already has most of the funding in place.

It is also incorrect that Marta does not have expansion plans. Marta expansion plans (http://www.itsmarta.com/newsroom/planstudy.htm - broken link)

[PeteyNice]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Well the thread is about Marta and the point of the Marta ridership ranking I posted was to illustrate that its not as ineffective as it is being portrayed. So once again, you're helping me make that point.

I can't see into the future to know how transit ridership will look down the road but as of today Dallas and Houston have a lot of catching up to do. You seem to be assuming that in the next 20-25 years there will be zero transit expansion in Atlanta and given current trends, that is highly unlikely. In fact the GA DOT is currently working on the region's first commuter line which already has most of the funding in place.

It is also incorrect that Marta does not have expansion plans. Marta expansion plans (http://www.itsmarta.com/newsroom/planstudy.htm - broken link)

That link is pie in the sky. There is little talk about funding or timelines or anything concrete. Dallas and Houston have these things. DART in particular is continually expanding. Yes, they *need* to expand to get to where MARTA is now but they are doing it and their plans have them leaving MARTA in the dust.

They have been "studying" the commuter rail line since the early/mid 90's. The only reason it is getting talked about now is that the federal funding for it may expire so they have to do something to keep in tact.

MARTA *is* ineffective. Just because it is as ineffective as other transit systems is nothing to brag about.