Megachurch pastor Creflo Dollar arrested (Atlanta, Washington: how much, big house, taxi)

[mrdkb]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

For the record, I admit it!

Do I think south Atlanta has more residents that are easily led by crooked pastors? Hells yes, I do. Are most of those residents black? I think they probably are.

These are just my perceptions. I'll be the first to admit it if I'm wrong.

It doesn't mean I think that any black person who lives in south Atlanta is a fool and throws money at pastors at megachurches. Not at all. But per capita, yeah, I admit that I think there are more people down there who will do it than in other parts of the metro.

If that makes me racist....maybe I am a little racist?

Although I prefer to think of it as just being judgemental. Which probably isn't a much better way to be. Tell you what, I'll continue to do some work on myself and try to be more fair in the future.

Incidentally, I do know some people who go to that North Point megachurch. They have tried to get me to go. I told them I don't dig services where I'm watching a dude on a Jumbotron, and even though the idea of rock and roll and wearing blue jeans does have its appeal, I prefer at least a little tradition. I was raised Episcopalian, so I'm comfortable with those weird cultish robes, hats, incense, and the giant cross on a stick! Theres a comfort level there because I was raised with it, but I completely understand how it could seem way out there and oddball to people not used to it.

Anyway, the point I am trying to make, is that almost everyone I know who goes to those megachurches are young single people. They're not serious about religion, they're serious about meeting quality people of the opposite sex. Most of them get into relationships and then find more traditional churches. That doesn't seem to be the case with the south Atlanta megachurches. At least, not anecdotally based on the people I know who go to each kind. But maybe my sample isn't big enough to be a valid random sampling.

Just speaking from a common sense perspective, though, every church I have been to (even the crazy southern Baptist ones in Alabama!) always pass around a plate and say please give as much or as little as you can or want to. Any church that pressures you to donate should raise an enormous red flag with anyone. And ministers are supposed to live modest lifestyles. I'm not saying they need to take oaths of poverty, but they most certainly should not be driving Bentleys and wearing Rolex watches.

I am black and this is VERY true:
"...driving Bentleys and wearing Rolex watches..."

"But per capita, yeah, I admit that I think there are more people down there who will do it than in other parts of the metro. "

"...they're serious about meeting quality people of the opposite sex."
The # of black (sinfully) women that I have met talking about meeting their man of God is unbeleiveable.

[FlyiMetro]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I grew up in and practically LIVED in strict black Baptist churches for the first eighteen years of my life. As a gospel singer I was a minor celebrity and spent most of my time in churches throughout the southeast. I stand by my original statement. Just because a church is old school doesn't mean that it's any more righteous than these "new jack" churches. A church with 30k members isn't a church, it's a social club. If a pastor is truly preaching the Gospel half his congregation is going to be mad at him on a regular basis. Not following his every word like lemmings off a cliff. Being a Christian should be hard, it shouldn't be a a part of a socially accepted norm. It should push you outside the boundaries. It should push you to think. To question. Churches that do that don't have 30k members.

And I know megachurches are nothing new. There was one in Birmingham we calle "Six Flags Over Jesus." It was rumored to have a life sized replica of the River Jordan. I know it had a bowling alley and a movie theatre. Like I said, social clubs.

This is the post I've ever seen you make. Being a religious person should be hard, because most people are bad.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by FlyiMetro

no loving like Preachers daughter loving. Alll that female wildness being surpressed & seeing her friends out being wild. I can only imagine. Mr dollars rage. . Hopefully she can one day get a job at magic city

You don't let your child be irresponsible because her friends' parents let their's be.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Church isn't supposed to be comfortable. .

Is it supposed to hurt?

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

Is it supposed to hurt?

Yes.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I grew up in and practically LIVED in strict black Baptist churches for the first eighteen years of my life. As a gospel singer I was a minor celebrity and spent most of my time in churches throughout the southeast. I stand by my original statement. Just because a church is old school doesn't mean that it's any more righteous than these "new jack" churches. A church with 30k members isn't a church, it's a social club. If a pastor is truly preaching the Gospel half his congregation is going to be mad at him on a regular basis. Not following his every word like lemmings off a cliff. Being a Christian should be hard, it shouldn't be a a part of a socially accepted norm. It should push you outside the boundaries. It should push you to think. To question. Churches that do that don't have 30k members.

And I know megachurches are nothing new. There was one in Birmingham we calle "Six Flags Over Jesus." It was rumored to have a life sized replica of the River Jordan. I know it had a bowling alley and a movie theatre. Like I said, social clubs.

Why does it have to be "hard"? When did being a Christian require thinking when the law is supposedly laid out?

[L'Artiste]

Tell me the truth.. His government last name is really Dollar?

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

Why does it have to be "hard"? When did being a Christian require thinking when the law is supposedly laid out?

Because at its core Christianity is a resistance movement. It runs counter to human nature. Think about it for a moment, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." Note, no exceptions are given for race, creed, color or running the leaf blower at 7:00 a.m. You have to love him. That means if your neighbor is hungry you must feed him. If he's sick you must nurse him. Again, no exceptions forvwhether your neighbor is an addict, or irresponsible or smells bad. That's pretty radical and if this were truly a Christian nation there would be no hungry, or homeless people. If we did what Jesus actually said it would hurt like hell, which is why we don't do it.

One of the most amazing services I ever attended was at the Episcopal church at of all places The University of the South at Sewanee. It was an Easter service and yes it had all the pretty rituals with the censer and all. But at the end the oriest bellowed, "Jesus said, 'Tend my sheep.' You're Christians now go out there and act like it!" Then he doused us in holy water and sent us on our way.

See, it's easy for people to come out against gay marriage and abortion and all these so-called "social issues." That appeals to our baser nature, our need to look down on someone, to be better than others. "you're going to hell," we say with a wag of our finger. "I'm saved," we taunt with the same smugness of an eight year old who snagged the last popsicle. Ther's a song with a chorus that says, "You will know we are Christians by our love." That's what Christianity is all about, love. And not this soft, soap operary emotion we trot out for the commercial holidays. Love is powerful. Love is strong. Radical love that can move the world. We are known by who we love, not who we shun.

Being a Christian means going outside societal norms and embracing that which is shunned. Advocating for the poor and downtrodden, eschewing material wealth and goods. Being a Christian doesn't mean being mindless and unquestioning. We must question eveything, but most of all, we must question ourselves. Because the greatest struggle a Christian faces is within himself. And that battle is continuous and ongoing. That is why being a Christian is hard.

“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”
― Stephen Colbert

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Firstly, a megachurch is one that's defined as "a congregation with a sustained average weekly attendance of 2000 persons or more in its worship services," so I'm not talking exclusively about the largest of the megachurches here.

Secondly, I never said anything about a more traditional megachurch being "any more righteous" than those that are less traditional. I merely said that not all megachurches (according to the actual definition, not merely the largest of the large) are providing this "comfortable, social atmosphere" that you speak of. I personally know of a few that are just larger versions of smaller strict, traditional churches.

And when I mentioned that megachurches aren't a new concept, I was speaking more along the lines of Metropolitan Tabernacle in London (C.H. Spurgeon's church) not a "theme park" church founded in the 70's or 80's.

If you keep making sense and providing factual information, it makes it hard for the church haters to hate.

I cringe each time I see this kind of thread, there is little discussion of the actual news event and it becomes a "let's bash all forms of Christianity" here.

By the actual definition, there are mega churches of EVERY denomination in metro Atlanta. When you have as huge a population as Atlanta, you will have churches that will grow large. To say the only reason someone attends a certain church is for _______ reason is spurious. There can be as many different reasons for a person to attend a specific church as there are peopole that attend. The moment any church closes its doors and says "we are too big" will be the moment the same people will come on here and talk about how snobbish and inclusive such a people are and besmirch Christianity once again.

Jesus fed the 4,000 once and the 5,000 another time. By some accounts, the culture of the day says this was just the number of men, that it was much higher when women and children would be added to that number. So Jesus needs to be lumped in with all these megachurch pastors and maligned just the same as he had more than 2,000 in attendance.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I grew up in and practically LIVED in strict black Baptist churches for the first eighteen years of my life. As a gospel singer I was a minor celebrity and spent most of my time in churches throughout the southeast. I stand by my original statement. Just because a church is old school doesn't mean that it's any more righteous than these "new jack" churches. A church with 30k members isn't a church, it's a social club. If a pastor is truly preaching the Gospel half his congregation is going to be mad at him on a regular basis. Not following his every word like lemmings off a cliff. Being a Christian should be hard, it shouldn't be a a part of a socially accepted norm. It should push you outside the boundaries. It should push you to think. To question. Churches that do that don't have 30k members.

And I know megachurches are nothing new. There was one in Birmingham we calle "Six Flags Over Jesus." It was rumored to have a life sized replica of the River Jordan. I know it had a bowling alley and a movie theatre. Like I said, social clubs.

Wow.

I don't think there's anything that I can add to this.