Atlanta has ONLY the 7th worst traffic in nation... (Conyers: mortgage, how much)

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

the point is not "solving" the traffic problem, it's coming up with as many ways as possible to AVOID the traffic and be able to function in the city. There is no way to solve the traffic problem outside of banning cars. The cities in the list above ( including us, to an extent) can afford to have bad traffic because there are other ways for residents and visitors to move around the city. However, the more we move up that list, the more alternatives we will have to develop for people to get around, out of necessity rather than luxury. Transit is something a large city has to have to be able to function. It's not a question of IF we need it, it's WHEN we need it. If the traffic gets bad enough, the city won't be able to function and people will move elsewhere. Then we won't have to worry about traffic anymore- we'll be like Detroit.

THANK YOU! This is what a lot of people seem to fail to grasp. Here in Atlanta, most of us don't have the option of "don't like driving, take the train" like these other places do. One reason the T-SPLOST failed is because way too many people have the thought that unless a solution is a magic bullet to cure all the congestion, that it's not worth doing. Instead, we should focus on the availability of viable alternatives that people can (and will) choose to take to avoid all the others who choose to stay stuck in traffic.

[arjay57]

I am so sick and tired of hearing about the myth of "Atlanta's horrible traffic."

Traffic is no worse here than it is in other big cities. In most parts of town people live reasonably close to work, shopping and schools and traffic is pretty much a non-issue.

Yes, there are mega commuters who chose to drive 20-40 miles to work but that is totally their choice. It's certainly not necessary for the average Atlanta resident.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I am so sick and tired of hearing about the myth of "Atlanta's horrible traffic."

Traffic is no worse here than it is in other big cities. In most parts of town people live reasonably close to work, shopping and schools and traffic is pretty much a non-issue.

Yes, there are mega commuters who chose to drive 20-40 miles to work but that is totally their choice. It's certainly not necessary for the average Atlanta resident.

Just hang on a minute. Traffic might not be worse than in other cities, but unlike those other cities (which bryantm3 and I already pointed out above) Atlanta has NO real transit alternatives. The 20-40 mile commuter isn't "Mega" by any stretch. 20 miles to downtown puts you in Lithonia, Norcross, Roswell, Marietta, etc. That's pittance compared to "those other cities." NYC commuter rail extends as far as Montauk, 3 hours, 120 miles, Poughkeepsie, 1:20, 80 miles. D.C. commuter rail extends as far as Martinsburg, West Virginia, 2:09, 80 miles. So if you really want to compare Atlanta to "other cities" then you also have to look at their transit options. People who live there can choose to take the trains, or take their vehicles. People here can choose to drive, or choose to be unemployed because those are the only two options. The places with the jobs are the places with the high costs of living: Midtown, Perimeter, Marietta, Cumberland. So if we don't drive, we don't work. Most of us suburbanites were either born here without a silver spoon in our mouths, or didn't want to be stabbed in the middle of the night living in downtown. Atlanta has only recently begun to see a turnaround in crime, but with it, has been a huge surge in cost of living. Then there's the education factor. Would you really put your kids through Atlanta Public Schools? No? So that leaves either homeschooling where one parents has to stay home, or private school which costs $$$ So the options remain the same. I am getting sick of the opinions of most of you ITPers who look down your nose at people who can't afford to live in all the hot new job centers and have the opinion of "just move" rather than trying to improve the entire area. Divisiveness like this is why Georgia is last place in virtually everything!

[noah]

Agree 100%.

Further, cities like Seattle would love our heavy rail system -- they have just begun to build light rail. I can only imagine the outcry here if that was all we had.

Originally Posted by arjay57

I am so sick and tired of hearing about the myth of "Atlanta's horrible traffic."

Traffic is no worse here than it is in other big cities. In most parts of town people live reasonably close to work, shopping and schools and traffic is pretty much a non-issue.

Yes, there are mega commuters who chose to drive 20-40 miles to work but that is totally their choice. It's certainly not necessary for the average Atlanta resident.

[tonygeorgia]

Traffic here isn't really bad unless you live on the Northside

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Just hang on a minute. Traffic might not be worse than in other cities, but unlike those other cities (which bryantm3 and I already pointed out above) Atlanta has NO real transit alternatives. The 20-40 mile commuter isn't "Mega" by any stretch. 20 miles to downtown puts you in Lithonia, Norcross, Roswell, Marietta, etc. That's pittance compared to "those other cities." NYC commuter rail extends as far as Montauk, 3 hours, 120 miles, Poughkeepsie, 1:20, 80 miles. D.C. commuter rail extends as far as Martinsburg, West Virginia, 2:09, 80 miles. So if you really want to compare Atlanta to "other cities" then you also have to look at their transit options. People who live there can choose to take the trains, or take their vehicles. People here can choose to drive, or choose to be unemployed because those are the only two options. The places with the jobs are the places with the high costs of living: Midtown, Perimeter, Marietta, Cumberland. So if we don't drive, we don't work. Most of us suburbanites were either born here without a silver spoon in our mouths, or didn't want to be stabbed in the middle of the night living in downtown. Atlanta has only recently begun to see a turnaround in crime, but with it, has been a huge surge in cost of living. Then there's the education factor. Would you really put your kids through Atlanta Public Schools? No? So that leaves either homeschooling where one parents has to stay home, or private school which costs $$$ So the options remain the same. I am getting sick of the opinions of most of you ITPers who look down your nose at people who can't afford to live in all the hot new job centers and have the opinion of "just move" rather than trying to improve the entire area. Divisiveness like this is why Georgia is last place in virtually everything!

Hey, give me a break! What makes you think I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth? And yes, we've lived in the city for decades and have never been "stabbed in the middle of the night" or had crime problems at all. We've also sent our kids and grandkids to Atlanta Public Schools (which I attended myself) and they've done just fine. I couldn't be prouder of them.

And what is this "don't look down your nose at me" business? If anything, we city dwellers have been the butt of so much abuse from OTPer's that it will make your head spin. Just look at your own post -- accusing of all sorts of things. Folks love to take a crack at the city of Atlanta, whether they actually live here or not.

I'm not sure where you live, but how far out do you think the trains should run? And who in tarnation is supposed to pay for them? As far as getting transit up to Norcross or Marietta, you may recall that both Cobb and Gwinnett counties have resoundingly rejected mass transit over the years. I agree that MARTA should be expanded within Fulton and DeKalb but it's hardly as if Roswell and Lithonia don't have access.

[netsirk]

I moved here about six months ago from northern NJ (Morristown), 30 miles due west of Manhattan. Over the years, I worked in the city for some jobs, and I worked in towns within 10 miles of the city (Secaucus, Teaneck) for others.

In the case of the city, I took the train in, and in the case of the others, I drove.

When people here complain about the traffic, I do laugh a little, because traffic in to and out of the city is about the same as the traffic I see here. The difference I see is that in the case of my commute in NJ, it was really bad only right in the areas close to the city, and that was at least in a large part because so many people were trying to get through a few tubes or over a bridge into the city. (I am not discussing other commutes within the metro area; the western NJ/PA to Morris County, NJ commute was some of the worst traffic I ever saw as a reverse-commuter.) The commute was also worse because Hudson/Bergen counties in NJ have a lot of businesses that people commute to.

In the case of Atlanta, it's not as large a city, and there are no bridges and tunnels to deal with, so it is a little head-scratching to me; I see the traffic and wonder where everyone is actually GOING during rush hour. (I have a reverse commute--I live in Inman Park and work up in the Wildwood office complex (30339), so my commute is brief and clear-sailing most of the way.) The other difference is that there are a lot more deadly crashes here than I ever noticed there, but that's another subject altogether.

My drive time usually took 30-35 minutes to Secaucus and Teaneck. My commute on the train into Penn Station took 50 minutes to an hour. And NJ Transit runs packed trains all morning and evening at rush hour.

So...whoever said that a "big" commute is 20 to 30 miles is a bit off--that's pretty standard, in my opinion; also, yes, traffic is still worse up in that area and they have mass transit, but just imagine what it would be without it. If those people on the train all decided to drive, the roads would be so clogged up there that no one would get ANYWHERE.

And whoever said that Atlanta could be so much better with more mass transit is also correct. How far can you expect mass transit to take you? Well, frankly, I don't think asking your rail lines to go quite a distance is unreasonable--but it's also what I'm used to. In NJ, I believe 1000 miles are covered with rail. It makes it possible for people to commute from Trenton to NYC. That doesn't even count light rail.

All this to say, yes, traffic here is bad. Not the worst I've seen. And I wish that the state would get a really good mass transit system in place. It would be nice to have options.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm not sure where you live, but how far out do you think the trains should run? And who in tarnation is supposed to pay for them? As far as getting transit up to Norcross or Marietta, you may recall that both Cobb and Gwinnett counties have resoundingly rejected mass transit over the years.

The residents of Cobb were asked 40 years ago, and haven't really been asked once since then. The joke of a TSPLOST doesn't count because it didn't address that issue.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

The residents of Cobb were asked 40 years ago, and haven't really been asked once since then. The joke of a TSPLOST doesn't count because it didn't address that issue.

If Cobb was truly interested in public transit you would think they might have fielded a pro-transit candidate at some point in the last 40 years. Or at least insisted on.a referendum of some sort. However, the silence has been deafening.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by netsirk

So...whoever said that a "big" commute is 20 to 30 miles is a bit off--that's pretty standard, in my opinion;

Well, that was me and maybe I am out of touch. It just seems like 20-40 miles is a mighty long way to live from where you work. I realize we're living in a time when a gallon of gas costs less than a gallon of water but eventually that ultra cheap energy will be gone. Then what?