Marta train ride from Airport to Five Points is very ugly. (Atlanta: houses, college)

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by erick295

Fixed it for you

Oh, you are so clever and funny.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

No one says that the tracks are hindering development, no one says that burying the tracks are absolutely necessary to the redevelopment of the area, and no one says that public money would or should be used to bury the tracks.

But burying the tracks USING ONLY PRIVATE MONEY AND NO EXISTING TRANSPORTATION FUNDS and creating new land on the surface for greenspace, new development and redevelopment of existing properties along the route would help to spark much new investment (in the form of new construction of high-density mixed-use development) both in and along the right-of-way where trains now operate on the surface in the same way that the Beltline is sparking much new investment and development along both the parts of its path that are already-completed and the parts of its path that are still yet-to-be completed.

As we are now witnessing with the progression of the Beltline, the robust combination of greenspace and passenger rail transit is a very-powerful attractant to new investment and development, particularly if the rail transit portion is buried underground and more surface land is available for both greenspace and real estate development (real estate development being how passenger rail transit infrastructure is supposed to be paid for) in an area that is only minutes away from the world's busiest airport.

Well, if this is all theoretical, I see the point. But cost of putting those rails underground far outweighs any possible returns a private entity could get from that sort of investment.

As much as I hate privatization of any law enforcement, I am envious of the public-private partnership (P3) set up in Denver. I think using private money to help develop a new commuter rail system in Atlanta or a robust streetcar network (we need both) will require something like a P3. It seems like the best way to reduce the burden of the cost of such a huge investment off the city or region. I see that happening one day. There is money to be made off all our congestion. Commuter rail could be another link, a faster one, between the airport and the rest of Atlanta.

I hope something like that is getting worked on. not. holding. breath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_P3

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by atler8

I had sort of a "refresher" course with south line scenery last week when I rode from midtown on down to the airport. The problem with the decay that we see from the train isn't really residential in nature & generated by poor people but rather it's primarily a scene there of decaying & dead industrial, warehousing & commercial space that was built along the railroad tracks that predated MARTA's line by well over a century. There really isn't a whole lot of housing to be seen there for the most part.

I agree its more abandoned structures and I don't find it such a horrific view. I know I'm in the minority but I find that segment more interesting than ugly. Its just real life. Is the city supposed to beautify the route so that we can pretend that poverty and social ills don't exist?

[Supplies]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Well, considering that just about all the stops in between are wealthy white suburbs, I guess not.

You must learn more about Metro North, it has many more stops after Darien, places you probably don't know like, Stamford, Norwalk, Danbury, Bridgeport, W Haven...many many more....

[DTL3000]

I personally don't think it's all that bad but I have been to some truly rough looking places that make almost anywhere on the southside of Atlanta look like West Paces Ferry. There are some nice old houses along the route and the bombed out industrial areas are kind of cool in their own way.

On a truly depressing note, this place is no more as of last night:


5 pointz from the 7 train - YouTube

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

So, where is the private money??? Who but the government is going to write the check? I'm sorry, but we don't live in utopia.

The same people who are already writing the checks...the foreign and domestic investors that the government is already borrowing increasingly heavy amounts of money from to cover the costs of infrastructure projects that are not covered by increasingly inadequate (and shrinking) revenues from sales taxes and non-inflation-indexed fuel taxes.

The only difference is that instead of continuing to create increasingly massive amounts of additional debt by borrowing money from private investors to pay for major transportation projects, the government instead pays for the transportation project by turning it over to the investors (through term-leases) and letting them make a profit directly off of the project (from user fee revenues on roads and transit and real estate revenues on transit) that those investors traditionally would have seen a much-lower return on by lending money to the government for the transportation project (often mostly by way of the bond market).

Directly controlling (and profiting off of the user fee and real estate revenues from) major pieces of transportation infrastructure is much more attractive to investors than just simply earning interest off of the money that they are already lending (in very-large amounts) to the government to build pieces of transportation infrastructure.

Foreign and domestic investors wanting to profit off of high-yielding major pieces of transportation infrastructure is not called utopia.

Foreign and domestic investors wanting to profit off of major pieces of high-yielding major pieces of transportation infrastructure is called CAPITALISM...and capitalism can be a very-effective way of getting our transportation needs met when utilized properly.

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Well, if this is all theoretical, I see the point. But cost of putting those rails underground far outweighs any possible returns a private entity could get from that sort of investment.

Not really, particularly when it is the revenues from the real estate lining the path where the trains will be tunneled and the revenues from the inflation-indexed distance-based fares that will be providing the returns and the incentive to invest.

Originally Posted by tikigod311

As much as I hate privatization of any law enforcement, I am envious of the public-private partnership (P3) set up in Denver. I think using private money to help develop a new commuter rail system in Atlanta or a robust streetcar network (we need both) will require something like a P3. It seems like the best way to reduce the burden of the cost of such a huge investment off the city or region. I see that happening one day. There is money to be made off all our congestion. Commuter rail could be another link, a faster one, between the airport and the rest of Atlanta.

I hope something like that is getting worked on. not. holding. breath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_P3

Actually, while a P3-financed passenger rail transit project may not be in progress exactly at this moment in the Atlanta region, Republicans in North Fulton and North DeKalb counties have in recent years been pushing the State of Georgia to takeover MARTA and privatize it (by leasing all or key parts of it out to private investors/operator) so that heavy rail transit lines can be extended into outlying areas on a sped-up timetable without the introduction of a new sales tax in those outlying areas.

The continued pressure by North Fulton and North DeKalb Republicans in the Georgia Legislature on the state to takeover MARTA and privatize it by leasing all or part of it out to private investors is why new MARTA CEO has been moving so fast to privatize non-transit operational parts of the system, get the agency to a budget surplus, and find new streams of revenue (...new streams of revenue from sources like for-profit out-leasing of land around MARTA transit stations for the construction of high-density mixed-use development which will generate additional revenues for the transit system).

[smb90]

I for one think that graffiti really tells a story and adds character to an area.

[cqholt]

This leads me to my next point and that is that it might be worth considering having an occasional express train from Hartsfield Jackson to the Five Points Station, thus avoiding all of the stations in between like what Philadelphia has. New York has express lines throughout the city which really make traversing Manhattan a quick trip. Ideally, it would be great if MARTA had an express line like New York has on its Park Avenue line.

MARTA was not designed for express service and building another rail would be very expensive. Not even WMATA and BART have express tracks and all 3 were built around the same time. Its really not that much of time to stop at every station between Airport and Five Points.

[Staysean23]

Originally Posted by David1502

To give the perspective of one who has taken mass transit from the airports of major cities to their respective downtowns, I would say that the MARTA line from HJIA to Downtown Atlanta is the worst. Boston's T takes you underground until you get well beyond their equivalent "Midtown area", so if there are any poor unattractive areas, they aren't visible. New York doesn't have a rail line to LaGuardia, so a cab or shuttle taking you through Queens on interstates (not that attractive but not like the Southside of Atlanta, either) is what one experiences there. In San Francisco, the BART is primarily underground once you get into the city limits of SF proper and the short distance near SFO is fine. Philadelphia has the advantage of having an express line form the Airport to the 30th St. AMTRAK Station, so if there are unsightly areas, the passengers are passing through so quickly and may not be aware of the trashy sights outside.

This leads me to my next point and that is that it might be worth considering having an occasional express train from Hartsfield Jackson to the Five Points Station, thus avoiding all of the stations in between like what Philadelphia has. New York has express lines throughout the city which really make traversing Manhattan a quick trip. Ideally, it would be great if MARTA had an express line like New York has on its Park Avenue line.

Bottom line, the views from the Southside MARTA line are some of the most unattractive for one of the most frequently used transit lines in the country and it would be beneficial to see it improved. Market forces have not been great enough to cause the property owners to sell their properties along that line for higher uses and with the state of the economy, it may be another 10 years before that happens in any significant way.

The A train goes to JFK ... and those views are hideous

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by Supplies

You must learn more about Metro North, it has many more stops after Darien, places you probably don't know like, Stamford, Norwalk, Danbury, Bridgeport, W Haven...many many more....

Um, I lived there. Except for Bridgeport, no ghettos here.I know this area.