Target pulling out of Gwinnett Place (Atlanta, Smyrna: wedding, buying, median income)

[brownhornet]

Originally Posted by cqholt

The rising poverty rate of suburban Atlanta is causing major demographic shifts and effecting retail options for those residents who move to the suburbs for job opportunities, but are left in a worse situation when the low end jobs close.

Nah, I think it's just Target. Even in Smyrna, the Target and Walmart are about a half mile a part and the difference in traffic between the two is very noticeable.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

Nah, I think it's just Target. Even in Smyrna, the Target and Walmart are about a half mile a part and the difference in traffic between the two is very noticeable.

He is partly right. It is also a graying issue. There are suburbs from the 80s and 90s they are becoming more empty-nesters and this generally has a negative impact on retail sales.

The neighborhoods will eventually stabilize. Lilburn is starting to stabilize now and retail stores are being re-filled and new ones built and is almost directly tied to an increase in people per household, but it is just starting.

The one issue to be cautious with is there are many people on these boards that would prefer to look at things in a simplistic manner. The city vs the suburbs, ITP vs OTP, etc.. It isn't exactly true that wealth is leaving the suburbs, but it is true that poverty is entering. The two are often still geographically separated within the suburbs. So I do believe retail outlets will reposition accordingly, but this doesn't mean the suburbs (as a whole) will lose their stores. The demographic shifts aren't nearly as large as some believe. It just use to be atypical for much poverty to be in the suburbs at all.

The target in Snelleville is always busy. It has the best locations too. What I find interesting is it is usually the other way around and I think it is part of Target's problem. Whenever Wal-Mart or Target is in close proximity to each other, Wal-Mart was there first and has the better location. This was true in Stone Mountain/Mountain Park. Target was south of US78 away from the denser and wealthier suburban areas and Wal-Mart was closer to it. A flood of lower and lower middle class people from Dekalb drive into shop too and they chose Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart there was busy as all and the Target, which was far larger and nicer, got low traffic.

The Target in Snelleville is ideal positioned in a large complex next to the Ronald Reagan terminus. They are doing everything they can to make that older smaller building work. It is busy.

[Humanista]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

Nah, I think it's just Target. Even in Smyrna, the Target and Walmart are about a half mile a part and the difference in traffic between the two is very noticeable.

But to adress cqholt's point, Target and Walmart have slightly different demographics. The Atlanta suburbs are getting poorer as people move closer in. The Atlantic actually had a pretty good article about this recently featuring Norcross. I know I refuse to go to Walmart due to their business practices and clientele. I'll go to Target as it doesn't seem as bad and they do have lines that are targetted to the more asipirational customer (Toms, Lily Pulitzer, etc). I would expect Walmart to profit from the Atlanta suburbs getting poorer as if what the analysts say is true, the poorer demographics shop at Walmart.

[ATLTJL]

This doesn't have anything to do with the Gwinnett Place Target, though.

We're a LOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGG way from that are being too poor to support a Target!

Especially when you consider that right across the street is a Costco, which caters to a much wealthier demographic than Target does.

Shifting demographics isn't why this Target closed. There are plenty of Targets still open in areas with much lower median incomes.

The median income within a 3 mile radius of Gwinnett Place Mall is $64,000. Something else is going on here.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by Humanista

But to adress cqholt's point, Target and Walmart have slightly different demographics. The Atlanta suburbs are getting poorer as people move closer in. The Atlantic actually had a pretty good article about this recently featuring Norcross. I know I refuse to go to Walmart due to their business practices and clientele. I'll go to Target as it doesn't seem as bad and they do have lines that are targetted to the more asipirational customer (Toms, Lily Pulitzer, etc). I would expect Walmart to profit from the Atlanta suburbs getting poorer as if what the analysts say is true, the poorer demographics shop at Walmart.

But as I was trying to state, that was too simplistic of a view that the suburbs are getting poorer and Norcross is an excellent example and I'm glad you brought it up.

The Housing in the town of Norcross near the town center is actually getting much more expensive. The northern half of Peachtree Corners (lets face it... it is historically the Norcross area) has become more more affluent and is increasing in value at the same time poorer families are moving into rental properties nearby, particularly to the south of that town in aging apartment complexes.

This is why the Forum exists and why there is a Target in that area as well. That is actually an area with some affluence and with an affluence that has grown and retailers are following that affluence. The forum was only built 13 years ago.

So this analysis being offered of the poor coming to the suburbs is missing something. The poor coming to the suburbs is really a story about how suburbs use to be without poverty and now it is a part of it, but it isn't a story of the suburbs becoming poor as a whole. We can't lose sight of that.

[Hellanta]

Honestly... Besides women who are either having a baby shower or are registered at Target for their wedding, who under the age of 47 shops at Target. </end thread>

No one's buying music from target.
No one's buying electronics from Target with Fry's, HHGREGG, Sams Club, Best Buy all in the area and Amazon being at your finger tips.
You're not buying Groceries from Target with Publix, Walmart, Super H-Mart and Aldi all in close proximity.
A correction is in order for Gwinnett Place.

Stores are just all over the place and there's no logic or reasoning for their current location other than them either being legacy stores or they're new developments that are taking whatever real estate they can get. (e.g. Studio movie Grille next door to Baby's R Us, Lumber Liquidators and a store that sells Women's Lingerie).
Just being close to 85 is no longer enough. The area is too spread out

[ATLTJL]

Besides women who are either having a baby shower or are registered at Target for their wedding, who under the age of 47 shops at Target

Uhhhhh........tons of people.

When was the last time you were in a Target?

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Uhhhhh........tons of people.

When was the last time you were in a Target?

Yea I was really confused by this too.

Target isn't just for music, food, and electronics either. It is a general merchandise store... basic home goods, storage, sports stuff, holiday decor, toys, etc...

I'm 32 and I like it. The last time I was at the one near Perimeter there were tons of people my age there.... some rather good looking girls too. Now admittedly I would not frequently say the same for the Snelleville location. Lots and lots of families.

[ATLTJL]

When I lived in Buckhead, I practically lived at that 2-story Target. For a while there, it was really the only place to get a lot of stuff intown. There were always quite a few people there.

I still go there for all kinds of things, too numerous to mention.

But that's really wasting time. I shouldn't have to explain what people go to Target for, most people get it.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

This doesn't have anything to do with the Gwinnett Place Target, though.

We're a LOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGG way from that are being too poor to support a Target!

Especially when you consider that right across the street is a Costco, which caters to a much wealthier demographic than Target does.

Shifting demographics isn't why this Target closed. There are plenty of Targets still open in areas with much lower median incomes.

The median income within a 3 mile radius of Gwinnett Place Mall is $64,000. Something else is going on here.

Costco has a farther reach than a discount store. People will drive for a lot more miles to get to Costco, than discount stores that are only a couple miles from each other.