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OK. Pick your own Chicago suburb of choice then. How about Des Plaines, IL? That would be the same distance as Braves are moving.
I have the right to complain if the Braves move to McDonough but not Cobb? You seem to be struggling to find excuses not to understand how people are upset about them leaving the city.
Not struggling, you are struggling by making asinine comparisons that have no basis in fact. You chose a comparison that was twice the distance of the actual moved and ignored the HUGE differences between Wrigley Field and Turner Field. One has history and a great neighborhood full of restaurants and bars around the stadium while the other has NONE of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311
The difference is this.
The Atlanta Braves
or
The "Atlanta" Braves
I've explained over and over again that my and many people's connection to the Braves is Atlanta. If its moved from Atlanta to "Atlanta", it makes it hard to really care about them. Its not the cities team anymore, its a regional team.
The Braves are perhaps the biggest regional team in all of MLB already as others have mentioned. It has never been the city's team, it is The South's team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alco89
Ok gotcha.
I don't think that's fair though since MARTA had a direct shuttle to Turner Field. So:
CCT terminal to the new stadium is a mile.
MARTA Shuttle to Turner Field is 100 feet.
This ignores the fact that you have to walk between a quarter of a mile and a half mile from Five Points through Underground to get to the shuttle and all the other general negatives of using that make it basically worthless to anyone who owns a car.
With that said I do hope eventually MARTA and CCT can get something together for better transit options to the new stadium itself.
Not struggling, you are struggling by making asinine comparisons that have no basis in fact. You chose a comparison that was twice the distance of the actual moved and ignored the HUGE differences between Wrigley Field and Turner Field. One has history and a great neighborhood full of restaurants and bars around the stadium while the other has NONE of that.
The Braves are perhaps the biggest regional team in all of MLB already as others have mentioned. It has never been the city's team, it is The South's team.
This ignores the fact that you have to walk between a quarter of a mile and a half mile from Five Points through Underground to get to the shuttle and all the other general negatives of using that make it basically worthless to anyone who owns a car.
With that said I do hope eventually MARTA and CCT can get something together for better transit options to the new stadium itself.
Are we complaining about walking a 1/4 mile thru UA? Are we going to start counting the steps from the front door to the car or car to the gate as well?
Are we complaining about walking a 1/4 mile thru UA? Are we going to start counting the steps from the front door to the car or car to the gate as well?
Hey man, you're the one who pointed out a 1.0 vs 1.3 mile difference like it mattered
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt
Cumberland Transfer Station to proposed stadium site, not the 'entertainment' village is 1.3 miles. [...] Georgia State Station to Turner Field gate is 1 mile.
How many people do you really expect to ride MARTA and transfer to CCT 10, that barely runs on Sundays? If the Braves really cared about moving even the same amount of fans that currently use transit, they would have located where there is existing transit. The move looks as if the organization doesn't care about those fans and employees that relied on MART to get to Turner Field.
And don't you think that in 2017 when the new stadium opens and the season begins that CCT, MARTA, and the Braves will figure out what additional service needs to be run on game days, or permanently? Maybe MARTA will run "Braves Specials" from Arts Center or Dunwoody and help the poor and car-less get to see our nation's passtime.
Maybe instead of assuming, presuming, and ranting, people should just wait to see what actually is done and what the actual issues turn out to be. Then see how the Braves and the others solve them.
Too many of you just want to sit back and rant and assume. The Braves have smart people working for them who have looked at where fans live and how they get to ballgames. I'm sure they don't want to alienate their fans, despite your conspiracy theories.
And don't you think that in 2017 when the new stadium opens and the season begins that CCT, MARTA, and the Braves will figure out what additional service needs to be run on game days, or permanently? Maybe MARTA will run "Braves Specials" from Arts Center or Dunwoody and help the poor and car-less get to see our nation's passtime.
Maybe instead of assuming, presuming, and ranting, people should just wait to see what actually is done and what the actual issues turn out to be. Then see how the Braves and the others solve them.
Too many of you just want to sit back and rant and assume. The Braves have smart people working for them who have looked at where fans live and how they get to ballgames. I'm sure they don't want to alienate their fans, despite your conspiracy theories.
Your right. I will sit back and wait because I don't wanna be like all those commentors that have already declared the streetcar a failure before its opened.
And don't you think that in 2017 when the new stadium opens and the season begins that CCT, MARTA, and the Braves will figure out what additional service needs to be run on game days, or permanently?
We shall all hope that the powers-that-be will figure out what kind of additional transportation connectivity will be needed to service that area which already struggles with traffic congestion issues during peak hours.
But with the very-poor track record of the powers-that-be in handling regional transportation issues over the years, it is very-understandable why many people would be legitimately concerned that nothing will be done to handle the additional traffic that will be generated by the new stadium and its adjoining year-round high-density mixed-use development in an area that already struggles rather heavily with traffic congestion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
Maybe MARTA will run "Braves Specials" from Arts Center or Dunwoody and help the poor and car-less get to see our nation's passtime.
Running game day shuttles from Midtown and Dunwoody should not be about only transporting the very-few (if any) poor and car-less Braves fans that go to see baseball.
Running game day shuttles should be about attempting to minimize the amount of traffic that will undoubtedly be added to the road network in a part of the metro area that already struggles with very-heavy traffic congestion during peak hours.
Running game day shuttle service should particularly be about attempting to minimize the adverse impacts to the traffic that will occur on already very-heavily used stretches of roadway like I-75 northbound (from West Buckhead, Midtown, Downtown and SE Metro Atlanta), the often severely-congested I-285 Top End Perimeter westbound (from GA 400, I-85 NE, US 78 E and East Metro Atlanta) and the I-285 West Wall Perimeter northbound (from I-20 W and SW Metro Atlanta), all stretches of roadway that already experience frequent traffic delays during evening rush hours and even sometimes on weekends.
If game day shuttle service is aimed only at the poor, the car-less and the transit-dependent and is not aimed at serving the choice riders (whom overwhelmingly make up most of the Braves' fanbase), then the shuttle service will fail and an already very-tough peak-hour traffic situation in that part of the metro area will only get that much worse than it already is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
Maybe instead of assuming, presuming, and ranting, people should just wait to see what actually is done and what the actual issues turn out to be. Then see how the Braves and the others solve them.
With the severe traffic issues that the I-75/I-285 Cobb Cloverleaf and Cumberland area already experience during peak traffic hours, people have every right to be concerned about will be done to address the traffic issues in the area before additional traffic-generating large-scale development in the form of the stadium and adjoining year-round commercial development is built, particularly if one has to drive through that already congested area everyday during peak traffic hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
Too many of you just want to sit back and rant and assume. The Braves have smart people working for them who have looked at where fans live and how they get to ballgames. I'm sure they don't want to alienate their fans, despite your conspiracy theories.
Those are good points.
Though part (but most certainly not all) of the reason that the Braves are having to move out of the City of Atlanta is because the Braves' brain trust was not smart enough to not commit the organization to a very-questionable multi-year TV revenue deal which seemed to handicap the amount of long-term revenue they are able to collect in a TV marketplace that they had dominated in the past when they were "America's Team" in Major League Baseball courtesy of their games being broadcast on the national superstation TBS.
Also, while the Braves cannot necessarily be faulted for wanting to move closer to what they (rather rightly or wrongly) perceive the geographical heart of their fanbase while getting the Cobb County taxpayers to pay a very-large chunk of the costs of their move (something which most-certainly is NOT dumb on their part), it should be noted that the Braves are not transportation planners who scoped out all of the impacts that their move will have on traffic in an area that already struggles heavily with congestion issues....
...Nor should it necessarily be the responsibility of the Braves organization or any private company to be transportation planners and shy away from major business decisions because of the impacts that those major business decisions will have on traffic...
...It is the responsibility of STATE GOVERNMENT to adapt the regional transportation network of major inter-county roads (like US 41, I-75 and I-285) to development patterns and add regional transportation capacity where it is needed as it is needed.
The state already has plans to add a couple of reversible tolled managed lanes to the right-of-way of I-75 NW outside of I-285, which will help somewhat but will not and should not be regarded as the long-term solution in an area with the population and amount of traffic-generating development continues to explode but the amount of road space stays pretty much close to what it was 2 decades ago when metro Atlanta had only half of its current population (and probably half of the traffic and half of the traffic-generating development it has today).
I know that people who live outside of the I-285 Perimeter are not necessarily all that hot about the concept of transit being extended and implemented OTP, but continuing to depend on the same road network we had 20 years ago (when we had half the current population) while the population and amount of development (and traffic) continues to explode is not sustainable, particularly from a quality-of-life standpoint.
As much as many people hate to hear it, there just is no way around the reality that an adequate (if not expansive) transit network has to be a major part of the transportation equation in a very-large major metro region with an increasingly very-limited road network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
Too many of you just want to sit back and rant and assume. The Braves have smart people working for them who have looked at where fans live and how they get to ballgames. I'm sure they don't want to alienate their fans, despite your conspiracy theories.
Again, this is a good point.
Though it does not help (and seems to only lend some degree of credence to the conspiracy theorists) when a powerful political figure like Cobb County GOP Chairman Joe Dendy publicly says that any transportation solution should be all about moving cars into the stadium area from the north and east and about bringing people into the area by rail from Atlanta.
It is very-understandable that a lot of Braves' fans and supporters in Intown Atlanta would feel somewhat alienated by comments like those during a time when their pride was already hurt after hearing the team announce that it was moving to Cobb County, which is an area that has traditionally had somewhat of a very-adversarial relationship with the City of Atlanta at times.
Dendy's poorly-thought out comments only made it seem to many (rather rightfully or wrongfully) like the Braves were making a conscious decision to appeal only to their fans in the powerful Northern suburbs and no one else in the region even more than they already appeared to be.
Your right. I will sit back and wait because I don't wanna be like all those commentors that have already declared the streetcar a failure before its opened.
Since you're referring to me, I never "declared the streetcar a failure before it opened" at all. I said it was a very expensive use of $100 million and I wondered if we'd be back in that thread in a few years trying to figure out how to save the line from insolvency.
I haven't looked it up lately but isn't it the case that only a small number of fans take MARTA?
Well, I take that back.
It looks like MARTA is taking an average of 3,369 people to the game, which is around 11% of their attendance per game. This probably includes workers at the stadium.
Granted, that is not huge but it is not insignificant either. Reducing auto traffic by 11-12% would make a difference.
I don't know whether Cobb can make that up or not.
it terms of transit, weren't the braves going to build the maglev train form the GA state station? Turner field, thus, would have ultimately been connected to rail.
And they Braves obviously did some research and realized that was not their best move. They were never 'going to build it.' At some point they studied the possibility. That is a big difference.
It looks like MARTA is taking an average of 3,369 people to the game, which is around 11% of their attendance per game. This probably includes workers at the stadium.
Granted, that is not huge but it is not insignificant either. Reducing auto traffic by 11-12% would make a difference.
I don't know whether Cobb can make that up or not.
With the amount of heavy traffic on Interstates 75 and 285 and US 41 (I-75 NW OTP is used by almost 300,000 vehicles each day while the I-285 Top End is used by over 250,000 vehicles each day), that amount can eventually be made up (and maybe even eventually exceeded), but the proper transit infrastructure has to be in place (starting with game day shuttles from Midtown and Dunwoody like neil0311 alluded to and eventually with high-capacity passenger rail transit lines between Cobb and Gwinnett by way of the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter and between Cobb and Midtown Atlanta, Downtown Atlanta and the Atlanta Airport).
It also should not necessarily be up to Cobb County alone to attempt to make up that number, but should be up to the state by way of some kind of state-managed regional transit entity.
That's because the additional traffic that will be generated by the new Braves' stadium and the adjoining year-round development will be coming into the Cumberland/Galleria area from around the entire Atlanta region primarily by way of 3 state-maintained highways (I-75, I-285 and US 41) which will each be affected the most by the new stadium development at the intersection of Interstates 75 & 285 (and US 41).
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