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I would rather have double the projects. That said, I would hope that the Beltline and Street Car lines were either part of that, or, much more preferred, in addition to the normal MARTA expansions.
Much more preferred meaning placed at just as high a priority as the rail lines?
Much more preferred meaning placed at just as high a priority as the rail lines?
As high, sure, but in parallel as opposed to in competition too. If that makes sense. If MARTA was built out to its current expansion list, it would be a very competitive commuter-rail network in the near-metro. The streetcars build off the back bone of this network, and fill in the local gaps, giving riders a way to go the last few miles within the city. Just like the buses, but more hip.
On a sort of related note, I would love to see a plan to connect the Clifton corridor with the Beltline, either as shared rails or platform a transfer.
We also need a topend perimeter crossing for rail.
As high, sure, but in parallel as opposed to in competition too. If that makes sense. If MARTA was built out to its current expansion list, it would be a very competitive commuter-rail network in the near-metro. The streetcars build off the back bone of this network, and fill in the local gaps, giving riders a way to go the last few miles within the city. Just like the buses, but more hip.
On a sort of related note, I would love to see a plan to connect the Clifton corridor with the Beltline, either as shared rails or platform a transfer.
We also need a topend perimeter crossing for rail.
I can totally agree with you regarding a top end perimeter crossing for rail.. from at least Cumberland to Doraville, preferably further down to Indian Creek even.
Not so sure I would make streetcar equally as high in priority as MARTA's HRT line expansions. I agree that the streetcar assists with last mile trips, but they are quite slow and I'm not sure how feasible they are commuting. On a leisurely stroll, sure.
Future expansion has the streetcar as far up as Buckhead which will be nice, but I would much rather rail projects take priority over the 5 phased streetcar project. That's just my opinion.
I can totally agree with you regarding a top end perimeter crossing for rail.. from at least Cumberland to Doraville, preferably further down to Indian Creek even.
Not so sure I would make streetcar equally as high in priority as MARTA's HRT line expansions. I agree that the streetcar assists with last mile trips, but they are quite slow and I'm not sure how feasible they are commuting. On a leisurely stroll, sure.
Future expansion has the streetcar as far up as Buckhead which will be nice, but I would much rather rail projects take priority over the 5 phased streetcar project. That's just my opinion.
Maybe you'll agree on just the Beltline ROW having equal need then? The dedicated space means faster trains, at least the same speed as the Clifton Corridor. It also fills in quite a bit of the inner city with rail options.
That being said, MARTA and the Atlanta Streetcar / Beltline are separate entities with their own sources of funding, so they shouldn't be in competition with each other too much...
Maybe you'll agree on just the Beltline ROW having equal need then? The dedicated space means faster trains, at least the same speed as the Clifton Corridor. It also fills in quite a bit of the inner city with rail options.
That being said, MARTA and the Atlanta Streetcar / Beltline are separate entities with their own sources of funding, so they shouldn't be in competition with each other too much...
Hmm... as much as I want to see progress on the BeltLine, I'm still don't have enough info to convince me to put it at equal priority as MARTA rail expansion on 400, I-20 and Clifton. Perhaps ever so slightly less priority, but not by much.
I do agree we need to fill in as many gaps as we can in town. I suppose it boils down to which routes will provide the most ridership/most demand.
Yes, they are separate entities. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a joint venture between CoA and MARTA (with MARTA overseeing operations).
Hmm... as much as I want to see progress on the BeltLine, I'm still don't have enough info to convince me to put it at equal priority as MARTA rail expansion on 400, I-20 and Clifton. Perhaps ever so slightly less priority, but not by much.
I do agree we need to fill in as many gaps as we can in town. I suppose it boils down to which routes will provide the most ridership/most demand.
Yes, they are separate entities. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a joint venture between CoA and MARTA (with MARTA overseeing operations).
The feds wanted MARTA to over see the construction, because MARTA has experience in building rail based transit and CoA does not.
In my opinion these Marta Rail extentions are a Great ideal, but i think as Marta moves further out in these suburban counties its time to look at using other modes of rail such as Commuter and Light Rail lines for there extentions, not these continued Extended Long Super Arms of Heavy Rail way out in the Burbs. Not that i dont support Extention of Heavy Rail in the Metro Area but it needs to retain itself to ITP areas more so. Example, the CDC Area, there are plenty of areas ITP that need Heavy Rail Extensions due to density. When it comes to the Cobb/Cumberland area it should stick to Light Rail, so should East-West suburban to suburban connections from the Cobb-North Fulton- Connections to Sandy Springs Marta Heavy Rail-over to Gwinnett County. Any other north-south lines should be either Commuter Rail from Downtown Atlanta Northward or more seeable a light rail connection from North Springs station North-South crossing over 400 to Alpharetta/North Point Area. Even light rail connections north from Doraville Station into gwinnett makes sense. If Cobb and Gwinnett were to join in with rail whether they run it themselves, let marta run it or the state runs it, would be the way to go. It helps these suburban Counties keep their suburban edge, since this is the mode Most major cities use when it comes to Rail in the suburbs, it may even be more acceptable by residents and citizens if approched that way. In most Cities, with a few exceptions, Keeps their Heavy Rail/Subway systems in the Core Dense areas. In my opinion, i also think thats a part of Marta big stigma in the Suburbs, since that all that it technically runs. I think no one really wants to see a Heavy Rail/Subway Train Running deep in their Suburb, just looks out of place and in the back of their minds, brings trouble. They much rather have a Light Rail Train or Commuter Rail Serve their districts.
In my opinion these Marta Rail extentions are a Great ideal, but i think as Marta moves further out in these suburban counties its time to look at using other modes of rail such as Commuter and Light Rail lines for there extentions, not these continued Extended Long Super Arms of Heavy Rail way out in the Burbs. Not that i dont support Extention of Heavy Rail in the Metro Area but it needs to retain itself to ITP areas more so. Example, the CDC Area, there are plenty of areas ITP that need Heavy Rail Extensions due to density. When it comes to the Cobb/Cumberland area it should stick to Light Rail, so should East-West suburban to suburban connections from the Cobb-North Fulton- Connections to Sandy Springs Marta Heavy Rail-over to Gwinnett County. Any other north-south lines should be either Commuter Rail from Downtown Atlanta Northward or more seeable a light rail connection from North Springs station North-South crossing over 400 to Alpharetta/North Point Area. Even light rail connections north from Doraville Station into gwinnett makes sense. If Cobb and Gwinnett were to join in with rail whether they run it themselves, let marta run it or the state runs it, would be the way to go. It helps these suburban Counties keep their suburban edge, since this is the mode Most major cities use when it comes to Rail in the suburbs, it may even be more acceptable by residents and citizens if approched that way. In most Cities, with a few exceptions, Keeps their Heavy Rail/Subway systems in the Core Dense areas. In my opinion, i also think thats a part of Marta big stigma in the Suburbs, since that all that it technically runs. I think no one really wants to see a Heavy Rail/Subway Train Running deep in their Suburb, just looks out of place and in the back of their minds, brings trouble. They much rather have a Light Rail Train or Commuter Rail Serve their districts.
I would love to have a comprehensive State commuter rail system, and yes, the Perimeter makes for a rather obvious boundary of service for MARTA. The thing is, though, that where these MARTA 'Super Arms' are being planned, are actually rather gaping holes in the GDOT Commuter Rail plan.
This true for at least the Connect 400 and I-20 East extensions. I-20 East actually stops where it intersects the commuter-rail line at Lithonia/Turner Hill Rd. There are no commuter-rail options running up GA 400's way. So, in a way, MARTA IS filling in the Inner city gaps, though more like the core county gaps, as the ends are really by county as opposed to city. Map
Furthermore, the route along 400 and I-20 were chosen for HRT because of their density, traffic volume, and ability to support such transit. While one would think that the city should be more dense, in a lot of cases, it isn't. Not yet.
See the line of bright/dark red spots going up into North Fulton? That's GA 400. The dark red along the south part of Dekalb follows I-20. Then Compare that to east Atlanta and you'll see the difference. This is why the Beltline/Streetcar System is important. It reaches out into areas of the city, away from MARTA, that need is in dire need of permanent transit options, but don't quite have the density to justify HRT.
Finally, while Commuter Rail makes the most sense to stretch out of the city and into the less-dense suburbs (and I still think that's exactly what's happening), GDOT and the State don't seem to give to right craps about it. The closest they've put in are the GRTA buses, which have been rather successful as far as ridership goes. We're many, many years before any commuter rail is even close to the stage of planning as the MARTA expansions, but we need transit options now, so MARTA's what we got.
In my opinion these Marta Rail extentions are a Great ideal, but i think as Marta moves further out in these suburban counties its time to look at using other modes of rail such as Commuter and Light Rail lines for there extentions, not these continued Extended Long Super Arms of Heavy Rail way out in the Burbs. Not that i dont support Extention of Heavy Rail in the Metro Area but it needs to retain itself to ITP areas more so. Example, the CDC Area, there are plenty of areas ITP that need Heavy Rail Extensions due to density. When it comes to the Cobb/Cumberland area it should stick to Light Rail, so should East-West suburban to suburban connections from the Cobb-North Fulton- Connections to Sandy Springs Marta Heavy Rail-over to Gwinnett County. Any other north-south lines should be either Commuter Rail from Downtown Atlanta Northward or more seeable a light rail connection from North Springs station North-South crossing over 400 to Alpharetta/North Point Area. Even light rail connections north from Doraville Station into gwinnett makes sense. If Cobb and Gwinnett were to join in with rail whether they run it themselves, let marta run it or the state runs it, would be the way to go. It helps these suburban Counties keep their suburban edge, since this is the mode Most major cities use when it comes to Rail in the suburbs, it may even be more acceptable by residents and citizens if approched that way. In most Cities, with a few exceptions, Keeps their Heavy Rail/Subway systems in the Core Dense areas. In my opinion, i also think thats a part of Marta big stigma in the Suburbs, since that all that it technically runs. I think no one really wants to see a Heavy Rail/Subway Train Running deep in their Suburb, just looks out of place and in the back of their minds, brings trouble. They much rather have a Light Rail Train or Commuter Rail Serve their districts.
Extending existing HRT saves on having to build new maintenance facilities. Transfers will also reduce ridership, so where HRT lines exist, it makes sense to extend the technology.
On a sort of related note, I would love to see a plan to connect the Clifton corridor with the Beltline, either as shared rails or platform a transfer.
They Beltline is supposed to connect to the Clifton corridor at the Lindbergh MARTA station.
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