MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Tucker: rich, yard)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by primaltech

The other big transit systems have this successful strategy they've employed over the decades, where they don't operate in a conservative southern state with a history of racism, perpetually controlled by rural-district regressives who have a bitter distaste for anything related to the city and its residents, and who oppose any kind of taxes and anything resembling public or progressive transportation. And where there's no regional planning whatsoever, and everyone refuses to pay for anything.

MARTA should really try that method sometime, then they'd get some funding and be able to expand their footprint and actually serve the population.

Yeah, i'll have to say that it's actually quite a bit more common than you'd think. Transit in this country is generally viewed as something for poor people, and, by extension, usually minorities in the places where it's usually present.

Atlanta isn't unique in its transit funding woes, just that we never had a state budget to really negotiate. Other states get to debate how much to give, just as much as we would if we gave MARTA state funding.

Honestly, I'd just be happy if the State allowed MARTA to seek its funding, and didn't get in the way of letting citizens decide if they want to tax themselves or join the system. That'll be our real challenge far before the state even thinks of funding MARTA.

[ccdscott]

CTA and Metra aren't begging for mandated money every year -- it's already settled law. And that's my point guys. They may be appealing for more, but they are still getting something. MARTA gets zilch.

This is ridiculous. 48 other states saw a need to provide at least some money (sometimes not much I concede) for transit. Georgia and Alabama don't, and you have people saying they have to "prove" or "sell" other citizens of the very state getting economic benefits of MARTA on MARTA. I'm more frustrated that these whole restrictions and such were placed on MARTA in the first place.

It's crazy.

[ccdscott]

Transit in this country is generally viewed as something for poor people, and, by extension, usually minorities in the places where it's usually present.

Yes, of course. But that still doesn't stop it for getting some funding.

primaltech is right and all of this "prove it" nonsense has the whole "racist without being racist because we're a southern state" thing...

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Yeah, i'll have to say that it's actually quite a bit more common than you'd think. Transit in this country is generally viewed as something for poor people, and, by extension, usually minorities in the places where it's usually present.

Atlanta isn't unique in its transit funding woes, just that we never had a state budget to really negotiate. Other states get to debate how much to give, just as much as we would if we gave MARTA state funding.

Honestly, I'd just be happy if the State allowed MARTA to seek its funding, and didn't get in the way of letting citizens decide if they want to tax themselves or join the system. That'll be our real challenge far before the state even thinks of funding MARTA.

Thank you for the voice of reason.

Even so called 'Transit friendly' States have major, bloody legislative battles every damn year.

We have the bones of a great rail system, and the real powers that be in the region are huge backers of it. For some to blame 'Southern states with a history of racism' for our shortcomings in funding makes me want to puke. It happens everywhere. And Atlanta was extremely progressive to even pull it off back then, but we did.

Our region is NOT unique when it comes to this.

Maybe some need to be reminded that uber-cool Seattle turned down the Federal matching dollars that built MARTA. They are now paying about triple the amount of their original plan for much less capacity than they really need, thanks to short-sightedness back then.

People need to give credit where credit is due when it comes to Atlanta.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It may seem self-explanatory to you but I doubt that it is to legislators and their constituents outside of Fulton and DeKalb.

And what's the big deal about laying out your best case? People do that all the time in business, politics and even in their own families.

Making the case with hard, irrefutable facts is a lot more persuasive -- and much more likely to result in actual funding -- than hollering on the internet about how the mean old the state of Georgia is not giving MARTA enough money.

If you're in the legislature you've got a million people beating down your door to give them money for this or that agency or program.

As the old saying goes, if you want somebody to agree with you, don't yell at them. Give them the tools they need to see it your way.

That seems to be MARTA's approach. And legislators outside Atlanta in much less affluent areas have a hard time seeing Atlanta needing funds from the rest of the state. So you have to make the case. What seems self-explanatory to them is that Atlanta can afford to take care of itself.

[primaltech]

DC and SF's heavy rail systems started out at the same time as MARTA, and their systems are, like, immensely better in every respect, carrying a large chunk of their urban and suburban population on a daily basis.

I would have to say that's because their areas of the country are less stupid and backwards in their views than ours. I say this as a native Georgian who loves Atlanta and is hopeful about the future. First we have to be honest about how much we in particular have sucked at having metropolitan transit (even by American standards) before we can start to do any better. IMO.

Georgia politicians and their constituents have kept MARTA down, since day 1 in the 1960's. The laws and rules are just the technicalities and mechanisms of the how it was done. All of that could have been changed a long time ago if we were, well, a blue state.

Not saying MARTA has always been internally managed well, I'm just saying let's be honest about the whole situation. They only have to "prove it" or "sell it" to the suburbs, because the suburbs have always ignored the rational benefits in favor of, "we don't want those people in our county."

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by primaltech

DC and SF's heavy rail systems started out at the same time as MARTA, and their systems are, like, immensely better in every respect, carrying a large chunk of their urban and suburban population on a daily basis.

I would have to say that's because their areas of the country are less stupid and backwards in their views than ours. I say this as a native Georgian who loves Atlanta and is hopeful about the future. First we have to be honest about how much we in particular have sucked at having metropolitan transit (even by American standards) before we can start to do any better. IMO.

Georgia politicians and their constituents have kept MARTA down, since day 1 in the 1960's. The laws and rules are just the technicalities and mechanisms of the how it was done. All of that could have been changed a long time ago if we were, well, a blue state.

Not saying MARTA has always been internally managed well, I'm just saying let's be honest about the whole situation. They only have to "prove it" or "sell it" to the suburbs, because the suburbs have always ignored the rational benefits in favor of, "we don't want those people in our county."

Sorry, but no.

I'm old enough to remember and witnessed the DMV going into apoplectic fits over Metro's construction.

I also remember the radical reaction to BART in the Bay Area, including bombings.

It was incredibly progressive for Atlanta to build MARTA, and all of the dividends have yet to be realized. Again, give credit where credit is due.

[magnetar]

MARTA riders take over 450,000 trips every day, that's one trip for every man, woman, and child living in the city of Atlanta. The new $1 billion interchange at GA400 and 285 sees fewer than 250,000 cars per day. If projects have to justify their worth based on usage, it seems like MARTA's value to this state should be obvious to anyone in government.

[primaltech]

No, I do give a lot of credit to the creation of MARTA. That was the wise decision part. I just criticize, that because of all the socio-political blockage, they only built a dinky plus sign and then pretty much called it a day, for decades now. They haven't built a single station since I was a kid, and I'm 32. That's, just... utterly ridiculous. It wasn't even close to being sufficient when it was built, and the region has grown by leaps and bounds since then. So I'm sorry if I cringe a little when I hear about how people "may be starting to warm up to MARTA", and how MARTA are having to "make the case" for system expansion. Great, we're now at where we should have been in 1985, and it's 2015. But, I guess I'm just bitter and jaded and cynical. I just love trains, and it's been so utterly frustrating to see the huge wasted potential of what MARTA could have been, all this time.

That said, at least finally something is happening, and it's so great that they might actually secure expansion funds in a few months. Let's all be hopeful that these official plans will kickstart a future wave of system expansion, and into some other counties for a change.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by primaltech

No, I do give a lot of credit to the creation of MARTA. That was the wise decision part. I just criticize, that because of all the socio-political blockage, they only built a dinky plus sign and then pretty much called it a day, for decades now. They haven't built a single station since I was a kid, and I'm 32. That's, just... utterly ridiculous. It wasn't even close to being sufficient when it was built, and the region has grown by leaps and bounds since then. So I'm sorry if I cringe a little when I hear about how people "may be starting to warm up to MARTA", and how MARTA are having to "make the case" for system expansion. Great, we're now at where we should have been in 1985, and it's 2015. But, I guess I'm just bitter and jaded and cynical. I just love trains, and it's been so utterly frustrating to see the huge wasted potential of what MARTA could have been, all this time.

That said, at least finally something is happening, and it's so great that they might actually secure expansion funds in a few months. Let's all be hopeful that these official plans will kickstart a future wave of system expansion, and into some other counties for a change.

Not to be too much of a kill-joy, but there have been 18 stations opened since you were born (1984 onward), and 7 station opened since you were a kid (1993 onward).

The real travesty is that, from 1979 to 2000, there was never more than a 4 year gap before a couple of new stations came online. That means that, at that pace, we're due ~8 new stations by 2016, which, yeah, isn't happening.