When Millennials buy, they to to the exurbs (Marietta, Bartow: how much, neighborhoods)

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Yeah. I've been keeping an eye out, and hoping I'll still be able to afford to live ITP, let alone near the BeltLine or near transit. I just don't know what prices will be like once I've paid off student loans and saved enough for a down-payment. And I'll probably be one of the few with a decent job who is ABLE to do that. There are plenty who just can't.

I would like to see a study on want vs. can afford. My gut tells me there are plenty who WANT to live in the city, or near transit, but who just can't make the finances work. Either because of incurred debt, a saturated job market, sky-high housing prices, depressed wages, or any myriad of other things that keeps our generation out of the housing market properly.

Have you considered the west and SW Beltline neighborhoods? I think they are still pretty affordable. Prices are rising, but I think it'll be a while before most potential home buyers are completely priced out (a la Eastside hoods).

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Right, but will they be there in 10 years? Will the neighborhoods even 'need investment' at that point?

It will be 10 years before you are ready to buy?

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Not per the last income/job thread. Good lord the average income was impressive.

I think Millennials have seen the consequences of sprawl and the studies that show how much of your life you spend behind the wheel. Big turn off for the exurbs and one of the biggest reasons people want to live close in. The other big reason, tons of things to do. But as folks get older that becomes less important, especially when kids enter the picture. Unfortunately, it appears your household needs to be making at least 80k to own in a relatively decent place where you can actually utilize the schools.

If driverless cars become ubiquitous in our lifetimes, I foresee a pretty big shift toward more sprawling housing trends and/or drive-to urbanism, regardless of the generation. It will just become a logical choice for those with kids who don't want to deal with high cost of living, crime and poor schools.

But are all the schools and crime that bad in the city in relation to the suburbs/exurbs? I live near the West End, most of the crime I hear about these days is happening OTP. And there are several intown school options as well. My kids attend a highly regarded, high ranking public elementary school just 5 miles from my house and less than two miles from my job in Grant Park. There is good and bad both in the city and the suburbs.

[cqholt]

Another thing about new families that I can kind of understand. I'm from Gwinnett and grew up here, but I am on the intown side of the county. Many of the new areas of Gwinnett are twice as far out of town than where I am and I still have a manageable commute option intown.F requently don't understand people out that far, except two details: 1) there are actually many jobs in Gwinnett itself, so people aren't moving that far away from where they work as many think and 2)many younger families want to be in a vibrant neighborhood full of other children for their kids to play with. It is a big selling factor that often isn't as sexy to discuss as the excitement of an urban, intown Renaissance, but if you want to be in a neighborhood full of kids you will find it in new exurban neighborhoods for sure. Anywhere that is new and the home purchases are dominated by the younger generation will have a 10-15 year period where there are more kids than an older, mature neighborhood would have. A type of neighborhood growth cycle.... This is actually a huge selling factor to young couples we don't discuss very often.

There are plenty of intown neighborhoods that are full of kids to play with. Go visit many of the parks in these areas and you will see it full of kids, birthday parties, etc.

[viningsgt]

Originally Posted by Take a Deep Breath

Read every world.


I'm 25 in Sandy Springs right now. My GF of 7 years and I are both working and will likely be married and home buying in the next 5 years. We spend a lot of time in and around Atlanta and live about 2 minutes from the King and Queen Buildings. I love feeling like a part of the city but mathematically I do feel like I am being pushed out a bit. I don't know who can afford these uber-nice townhomes and lofts that go up every 3 months but it's not anyone I graduated with.


We seem to be falling into one of two buckets when looking at our next spot:


1) Older (usually renovated) homes ITP in very mature, wooded neighborhoods - which prefer lease-to-own options a lot of the time.

or


2) Buy something new and shiny and just be further out.


I'm not really thrilled about paying almost $3,000/month just to say I "live in Atlanta". Especially if I can pay half that and have a garage and a backyard - not to mention start to build equity.

Many people on here seem to not fully grasp OTP life. Your option 1 exists OTP as well and usually involves the amenities that folks ITP enjoy such as walkable trails, parks, and shopping for half the price of intown and cheaper taxes, probably better schools as well. Your only options aren't ITP or a shiny new subdivision with no trees and you can see all of your neighbors from your front porch. Good luck with decision.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Well Millennials aren't just moving intown and then moving back out. Many are never moving intown at all. The data is too lop-sided. Most live out of the city by a long-shot. The thing is all those are growing areas and a large part of that growth are millennials, so people are moving in there as well.

But beyond that, they aren't necessarily hopping from one new urbanist development to the other either. Most are just following existing trends and buying a full home when that times comes.

A clarification is needed though.....

You're combining separate lines from the article. The first line discussed where millennials are overall: "Many of the clusters are along major roads and in larger suburbs, where construction of mixed-use communities." The second, then said, "While most millennials in the metro are renters, the research indicates that clusters of millennial owner-occupied housing exist in the far reaches of the metro, in places like Barrow and Paulding counties, where real estate is cheap."

You have to separate where they are overall.... and then where they are when buying, but the first sentence you were referencing clearly was talking about the busier corridors in the large suburbs, not the far reaches of Paulding and Barrow.

New urbanism is a concept that isn't limited to a single density of development or building into a single existing area. There are actually an array of different types of developments that take in some new urbanism philosophies, even in a suburban atmosphere.

It isn't all just about building a single 6 story apartment building on an existing street grid next to a greenway.

Rather it is about doing away with single-use land zoning, creating human scale environments, and trying to create better sense of place.

A few well known cases would be:

downtown Woodstock
Suwanee Town Center
Serenbe. Chattahoochee Hills in general is trying to maintain a rural atmosphere, but also do it by creating small dense, high quality towns. It is very rural, exurban.

To a partial degree the way many neighborhoods are built in Gwinnett,Suwannee, Alpharetta, Kennesaw, Smyrna, etc.. are changing. It won't appeal to the super-intown crowd and realistically people still need a car, however more neighborhoods in a suburban nature now build into the adjacent businesses on the street and zoning dictates it.

Suwanee is actually pretty aggressive at this in newer subdivisions near traffic arteries. They are suburban, but mixed use and to be fair the article actually said mixed use (not new urbanism).

The way this usually plays out is a series of smaller strip malls and neighborhoods are built behind them and sometimes they have town homes as a component to the development and all the roads connect. It is still very suburban and auto-driven, but the development is mixed and the massive strip malls are broken up into smaller entities and it is actually possible and not completely unpleasant to walk into from the adjacent, new neighborhood.

Here is an example in Suwanee of something less interesting, yet it is mixed use... and still suburban/auto-oriented.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Su...!4d-84.0712997

It is a mix of housing types, it is possible to walk to the shops and eateries in the strip malls pretty peacefully. There is more attention to a sense of place, communal parks, etc... The strip malls are broken up and smaller. A few other things are going on here that aren't quickly seen to many. This area is purposely built this way with health/doctors offices. This is actually trying to create better communities to age-in-place in the future. They are trying to make it tamer and easier to drive to a number of doctors offices and shops as people begin to become less mobile. It is then easier and cheaper to get a ride or walk when needed. It would be easier to keep my parents in a townhome here when they get older, let them keep their independence longer, and yet take away the burden on them driving 5 miles to everywhere they need to go like they do now.

This is what need more of in the suburbs. It fixes some problems, but it can still let people live in similar houses that they live in now.

Most towns in the area are looking at creating better town centers and attracting residential development that feeds into their town centers.

LCI initiatives are located throughout the metro area and are trying to create better senses of places, put more mixed housing types and bring people closer to businesses, doctors, dentists, banks, etc... and there are many small examples of successes, even though its not the excitement of being 'intown.' The idea isn't to change the whole landscape, but to focus on high-impact areas to attract more development built in a better way in the future.

Good points. I think the article was a bit sloppy in terms of not making the distinctions you pointed out (never mind the title itself), which leads the reader to make certain inferences that aren't necessarily reflective of developing or established trends.

[arjay57]

As I have said many times, the whole ITP/OTP thing is UTTERLY bogus.

In most cases people wouldn't know the difference unless somebody told them and pointed it out on a map.

Sure, there are differences between individual neighborhoods but the Perimeter isn't the dividing line and it doesn't mean squat.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by viningsgt

Many people on here seem to not fully grasp OTP life. Your option 1 exists OTP as well and usually involves the amenities that folks ITP enjoy such as walkable trails, parks, and shopping for half the price of intown and cheaper taxes, probably better schools as well. Your only options aren't ITP or a shiny new subdivision with no trees and you can see all of your neighbors from your front porch. Good luck with decision.

How much of that walkable trails, shopping, etc. are you able to walk to (if you choose)?

[ATLTJL]

How much of that walkable trails, shopping, etc. are you able to walk to (if you choose)?

How much a difference does it actually make in your life if you walk to a trail or get in a car and drive 3 minutes to one?

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Actually it has been well documented that Millennials with higher education move into cities more than those without.

And that was probably the same for Boomers. The actual data show that millennials are actually slightly more likely to live in the burbs than Boomers were at the same age.

"What has been will be again,
****what has been done will be done again;
****there is nothing new under the sun."