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Old 01-29-2017, 11:03 AM
 
4,228 posts, read 4,123,088 times
Reputation: 3191

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forhall View Post
Chances of being killed by an immigrant in America: about 1 in 3 billion.

Chances of being killed by a gun, purchased legally or not, not including suicide in America: 3.6 in 100,000

And which one do Republicans try to ban? Don't pretend Republicans are trying to protect people by doing this, it's about racism and fear, plain and simple.
Also bingo, dead one.

It's form of trying blame different religions, different races/ethnic groups and etc for the countries problems.

 
Old 01-29-2017, 11:31 AM
 
4,228 posts, read 4,123,088 times
Reputation: 3191
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
I disagree, he is doing exactly what he said he would do if elected. He was elected fairly and now he is actually keeping his promises which is something new in DC.

It isn't dictatorship, it is him not worrying about upsetting donors or hot topics for re-election... he is doing exactly what he said he would do and he won the election, so he isn't doing it against the will of the people.

None of this should be news, he campaigned non-stop all of last year. Liberals are just upset he is actually makig good on his promises.
I never said he wasn't elected fairly, I said he's unpopular we had two unpopular candidates that means the winner going in is unpopular. Before and After the election not just "liberal" but Americans in general diss approve of his polices. I didn't say crap about donors I'm talking about the American people he's approval rating is in the 30's to 40 range.

So he's keeping promises of doing things most Americans don't want him to act on, and doing it with a bunch of executive actions which is extremely partisan.

A lot of candidates don't do a 100% of their promise not that don't to...... but public opinion on the issue it self can change, and he or she have to work to find a medium common ground with other politicians who may even have made opposing promise.


Obama like most presidents before had positive numbers and would go according to what Americans approve of. He pushed his major issues throw congress and senate which bring checks and balance and the opinions of republicans and Democrats in. Just imagine the out range if Obama sign Obamacare in through executive actions not good through the by bipartisan process of the congress and senate.

So Trump doesn't get a cookie for this he doing it against America approval and extremely partisan. Behaving like a dictator is a lot easier than doing what Americans approve of and being bipartisan.
 
Old 01-29-2017, 11:35 AM
 
Location: USA
16,588 posts, read 16,267,959 times
Reputation: 12542
The promises Obama made and the issues he promised to fix are all still broken... healthcare costs, infastructure, prescription medicine, corporate power, wage growth etc etc etc. just watch Bernie Sanders rallies and you'll see all the problems.

Trump banned lobbying for 5 years and some for life, why didn't Obama do this? Because he was in the pockets of every special interest group just like all the presidents before him.
 
Old 01-29-2017, 12:13 PM
 
27,786 posts, read 24,826,396 times
Reputation: 16505
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
I voted for Obama in the 2008 election and even donated $100 to his campaign which is the first and only time I've ever made a donation to a politician. He promised a lot of things and he didn't deliver, Democrats promised a lot of things and they didn't deliver. They celebrated for two years, which is why they lost almost every election since. They even had a super majority after the 2008 election. Do you notice the same promises made by Obama are the same promises Hillary and Sanders were making in 2016? That is all the proof you need right there that barely anything was accomplished by Obama. We got some things passed, which just made the donors happy like Obamacare. Remember the promise if you like your plan you can keep it and how it would make healthcare more affordable. I was paying $150 per month for a great plan before Obamacare and I thought it was expensive, which was one of the reasons why I voted for Obama. Obamacare came and my premium for a similar plan is now around $550 per month. It's so ****ing expensive. It helped a very small percentage of Americans with pre-existing conditions or families living in poverty who decided it would be a good idea to have 10 children. However, it has hurt the majority of Americans and so many are under-insured or have copays that pay a ridiculous 50-60%, before Obamacare 80% copay was pretty standard, so great something major happens, you'll still go bankrupt meanwhile you're still paying $300 per month for a plan that doesn't do **** for you. Our airports are still garbage, our roads are still garbage, our bridges are still garbage, interest rates are still at record lows, god forbid the economy crashes because we can't really lower rates much more to stimulate the economy. I could go on and on. I was a proud voter of Obama, I'm not some right wing nut job, but I am so disappointed with him and Democrats, they had a freaking super majority and they barely did anything, the things they did pass were so covered in donor ****, they were virtually worthless.
Well first of all, the Dems only had a filibuster-proof majority for only 75 days, not for the entire first two years of Obama's presidency and that's important to note. It's also important to note that the level of GOP obstructionism was unprecedented during Obama's presidency and much of the first two years were dedicated to ensuring that the global economy didn't completely collapse. So you can complain about what Obama and the Dems did and didn't do in the beginning, but I'd say brining preventing the economy from completely crashing and burning was a huge accomplishment.

The ACA has its issues for sure and a lot of kinks still need to be worked out, but the system pre-ACA was not better. When insurers can no longer deny people coverage for pre-existing conditions, that helps everyone, not just people who got a plan from the exchanges. We'll see what this new administration does but so far, the proposals I've seen from the GOP would all be worse.
 
Old 01-29-2017, 01:13 PM
 
4,228 posts, read 4,123,088 times
Reputation: 3191
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
The promises Obama made and the issues he promised to fix are all still broken... healthcare costs, infastructure, prescription medicine, corporate power, wage growth etc etc etc. just watch Bernie Sanders rallies and you'll see all the problems.

Trump banned lobbying for 5 years and some for life, why didn't Obama do this? Because he was in the pockets of every special interest group just like all the presidents before him.
Lobbyist are people in business influencing politicians, not only did trump put lobbyist in his cabinet, Trump is basically a lobbyist himself. He refuse to release his tax returns something politicians generally do, nor address his many conflicts of interest. Anyways.

But your missing the point a politician should stand where the public stands some times public opinion changes. Sometimes a candidate may run on a issue, but a year later it just not popular to the public any more.

Also Obama is not the only person in government, Some senators and congressmen disagree with him, so to bipartisan he rightly compromise some issue to find some common grounds. Another thing going in Obama came in with his hands full with the worst recession since the 30's. This also change political reality on what's first and best for country at the time.

Most Dems want a total universal heath care, Obamacare is only half way. than he let congress and senate push it. which is attempt to be bipartisan and it go though the democratic process. Again imagine just imagine if Obama forced a full universal heath care though executive actions how partisan and out rage that would came from republicans. He didn't do it because he wanted to be bipartisan not behave like a dictator, not force things most other politicians and even most Americans dis agree one.

That's trump numbers are so low because most Americans don't prove of his positions. And he just forcing them major issues with executive actions and not give it a least congress or the senate. That's dictator like.

His approval numbers are in the 30's - 40's, He literally just cause the largest protest in American history. The Women march protest was far greater his inauguration, and his inauguration was bizarrely small.

Obama vs Trump


Protest against his position

Now people are protesting at airports.


Again Hilary and Trump numbers were both low, Trump wining didn't mean American approve his position it means a unpopular candidate edge out another unpopular candidate.

Every time I read some say Liberials are upset I want to say no idiot most in Americans in general are upset his freaking approval is in the 30-40 ish. And this not every day political protesting the scale of protesting is unusual and if some mocks it shows they don't take this country being divided and falling apart serious.

My point is most Americans are against Trump positions, but reality doesn't seem to register with Trump or the small segment of America who actually support these positions. It's not liberal vs conservative. It's 60-70% of country in odds with Trump.
 
Old 01-29-2017, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,405 posts, read 2,737,111 times
Reputation: 2164
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamadiddle View Post
Nor did Trump halt immigration because the immigrants were Muslim. Did you read the EO or does your desire to vilify Trump preclude you from rational thought?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aery11 View Post
I don't see where Trump did this because some or even most of these people are muslim. He did what he did because they are PEOPLE coming from the very terrorist countries that Obama declared were the most danger to the US.
Trump says US will prioritize Christian refugees

Quote:
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump said in a new interview Friday that persecuted Christians will be given priority over other refugees seeking to enter the United States, saying they have been "horribly treated."
Quote:
"If you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible and the reason that was so unfair -- everybody was persecuted, in all fairness -- but they were chopping off the heads of everybody but more so the Christians. And I thought it was very, very unfair. So we are going to help them."
Quote:
The United States admitted a record number of 38,901 Muslim refugees in 2016, according to a study conducted by Pew. But nearly the same number of Christians, 37,521 were also admitted.
Quote:
A study conducted by the libertarian Cato Institute found that between 1975-2015, the United States admitted approximately 700,000 asylum-seekers and 3.25 million refugees. Four asylum-seekers and 20 refugees later became terrorists and launched attacks on US soil.

"The chance of being murdered in a terrorist attack committed by an asylum-seeker was one in 2.73 billion a year," wrote the study's author, Alex Nowrasteh. "The chance of being murdered in a terrorist attack committed by a refugee is one in 3.64 billion a year."
That is a ban on refugees targeted NOT at their country, but at their RELIGION. That is, itself, illegal.
Quote:
David J. Bier, an immigration analyst at the Cato Institute’s Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity, said in a New York Times Op-Ed on Friday that Trump's Friday executive order is illegal.

"The order is illegal," Bier wrote. "More than 50 years ago, Congress outlawed such discrimination against immigrants based on national origin.

"Nonetheless, Mr. Trump asserts that he still has the power to discriminate, pointing to a 1952 law that allows the president the ability to 'suspend the entry' of 'any class of aliens' that he finds are detrimental to the interest of the United States," he continued.

Even the freaking Cato institute agrees that this is illegal and that the national security 'boost' from such practices is insignificant.

We HAVE a vetting process, and it's long, and challenging, and excludes a LOT of people. Of course, now a huge chunk, if not the entirety, of the State Department's senior leadership has resigned. It's unclear how many retired on their own vs. being pressured out by the current administration, but it's clear there is both going on.

We have a president who is not listening to his intelligence community, who is replacing top military cabinet staff with crap reporters, who has bled off all of his senior department of state staff, and who is missing a large majority of his diplomats.

Our president is doing SO MUCH MORE to put our country in danger of terrorist attacks than ANY refugee has EVER done so.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
The promises Obama made and the issues he promised to fix are all still broken... healthcare costs, infastructure, prescription medicine, corporate power, wage growth etc etc etc. just watch Bernie Sanders rallies and you'll see all the problems.

Trump banned lobbying for 5 years and some for life, why didn't Obama do this? Because he was in the pockets of every special interest group just like all the presidents before him.
Trump lobbying ban weakens Obama rules : The new executive order removes some restrictions on lobbyists entering the administration.
Quote:
President Donald Trump's much-hyped ban on administration officials becoming lobbyists removed some of President Barack Obama's ethics rules instead of strengthening them.

Trump's ethics pledge, issued as an executive order on Saturday, includes a five-year "lobbying ban" that falls short of its name, preventing officials from lobbying the agency they worked in for five years after they leave, but allowing them to lobby other parts of the government.

The order also lets lobbyists join the administration as long as they don't work on anything they specifically lobbied on for two years. Obama's order from 2009, which Trump revoked, blocked people who were registered lobbyists in the preceding year from taking administration jobs.
Trump may not 'be in the pockets' of special interest groups (though that is, itself extremely debatable) but all he's done is cut out the middle man by PUTTING THE FREAKING SPECIAL INTERESTS IN THE ADMINISTRATION. A cabal of billionaires are, themselves the special interests. They are the ones who buy out politicians, and now they ARE the politicians.

That's draining the swamp, only to replace it with a danged toxic waste dump. A rather apt analogy given his views on the EPA and other environmental protections.
 
Old 01-29-2017, 02:25 PM
 
631 posts, read 330,751 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Well first of all, the Dems only had a filibuster-proof majority for only 75 days, not for the entire first two years of Obama's presidency and that's important to note. It's also important to note that the level of GOP obstructionism was unprecedented during Obama's presidency and much of the first two years were dedicated to ensuring that the global economy didn't completely collapse. So you can complain about what Obama and the Dems did and didn't do in the beginning, but I'd say brining preventing the economy from completely crashing and burning was a huge accomplishment.

The ACA has its issues for sure and a lot of kinks still need to be worked out, but the system pre-ACA was not better. When insurers can no longer deny people coverage for pre-existing conditions, that helps everyone, not just people who got a plan from the exchanges. We'll see what this new administration does but so far, the proposals I've seen from the GOP would all be worse.
This, plus Obama did put in stipulations for 2 years for lobbyists, so to say he did nothing is wrong. I have no argument with that anyway, that's one of the few things he's done well, though his cabinet is full of special interests, so that is completely compromised.

However, this sort of stuff that a majority of the country doesn't believe in and he's forcing down with executive order is on the edge of dictatorial. Forcing what's not popular even if he campaigned on it, doesn't mean anything, because he's not listening or even open-minded enough to compromise when he's unpopular, he's jamming an agenda that most of America didn't want.

The fact that his approvals are in the 30's or maybe 40, says even many that voted for him don't approve of what he's instilling.

On top of it, what I've read about the Green Card aspect to this, is downright insulting and if it's true that his own people Bannon and Miller overstepped the National Security team to force that aspect, that's wrong.

Finally, not one of the terrorist attacks that has happened in this country were from any of these countries, some had loose ties or ties to the ideology of ISIS which are in these countries, so banning people from these countries isn't fixing anything.

It's also not exactly helping our troops, as the very people that we are helping are now going to be thrown back to these countries and likely under grave risk for helping the Americans in the first place and forget them ever helping us again after we turn our backs on them.
 
Old 01-29-2017, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,268,204 times
Reputation: 4205
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamadiddle View Post
I'm sure you liberals were just as outraged when Obama did the same back in 2011?

MORE HYPOCRISY: Obama Banned all Iraqi Refugees for 6 Months in 2011 - Liberals SAID NOTHING!

Well on leader responsibly stopped processing refugee applications from one country that was still war-torn and divided and having internal problems of domestic terrorism from years of W. Bush wars. This did not affect existing residents, green card holders, existing refugee residents, or student visa holders.

The other leader issued a blanket ban from 7 different countries, because of their majority religion [and lack of personal business ties]. This included permanent residents, green card holders, existing refugee residents, student visa holders, existing visa holding residents, etc... It was further instituted irresponsibly causing many to be in limbo, while in transit. It goes against the values of this country. It goes against the 1st amendment.



This "hypocrisy" example is pretty much the equivalent of defending Trump for using a Nuclear war head, because Obama once shot a missile from a drone to take out at specific target.... in a comparison to foreign policy.


What is further troubling to me is Obama was out to win over moderates from this region and he largely did. The more aggressive our policies get, the more we push away moderates. Just as we want to keep a few specific individuals out, it is important we win support from a majority in this world to not harbor those with specific, aggressive ideological beliefs. The more aggressive (and the more publicly and poorly implemented being a key detail) our policies are, the more we foster anti-American ideals in moderates of populations. Once this happens, combating terrorism becomes extremely hard, because the ability for people to hide and recruit greatly increases.
 
Old 01-29-2017, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,268,204 times
Reputation: 4205
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Like him or not, Trump is probably the first president in many, many decades who is actually doing the things he said he would do and in record time. He is not sitting on his hands celebrating like Obama did in 2008. Like I said, whether you hate him or love him, he really is working fast to make good on his campaign promises, which is a first in my lifetime.
Obama did alot and most it if was near the beginning of his presidency.

The problem he faced was he always has to negotiate with conservative and more conservative democrats through legislation that was passed.

He passed a stimulus and got the country back on its feet, but it was never the full size he wanted. He had to negotiate for it.

He got a sizeably important healthcare reform passed and at a minimum fixed most of the problems of the previous 'let the states choose a high risk pool' and let people go bankrupt when they get cancer system, but it was far from being something he hand picked. People often forget, despite the name, Obamacare wasn't written by Obama. It was a negotiation that took the most conservative and moderates of democrats to vote on. Democrats being a part of ideas do not move lock-step together. They are much more diverse, than their Republican counterparts. They argue more, have more ideas, and care more conservative and liberal within the same party.

And yes Obama did become a lame duck, but that wasn't his fault. Republicans wouldn't negotiate, they wouldn't offer ideas that could be put into writing and be checked over by the GAO. They only sought to impede and falsely delegitimize his presidency by questioning whether or not he was born where he was actually born. It is now one of the leaders of this latter movement that is president today.
 
Old 01-29-2017, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Out West
20,687 posts, read 15,469,075 times
Reputation: 24240
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Lobbyist are people in business influencing politicians, not only did trump put lobbyist in his cabinet, Trump is basically a lobbyist himself. He refuse to release his tax returns something politicians generally do, nor address his many conflicts of interest. Anyways.

But your missing the point a politician should stand where the public stands some times public opinion changes. Sometimes a candidate may run on a issue, but a year later it just not popular to the public any more.

Also Obama is not the only person in government, Some senators and congressmen disagree with him, so to bipartisan he rightly compromise some issue to find some common grounds. Another thing going in Obama came in with his hands full with the worst recession since the 30's. This also change political reality on what's first and best for country at the time.

Most Dems want a total universal heath care, Obamacare is only half way. than he let congress and senate push it. which is attempt to be bipartisan and it go though the democratic process. Again imagine just imagine if Obama forced a full universal heath care though executive actions how partisan and out rage that would came from republicans. He didn't do it because he wanted to be bipartisan not behave like a dictator, not force things most other politicians and even most Americans dis agree one.

That's trump numbers are so low because most Americans don't prove of his positions. And he just forcing them major issues with executive actions and not give it a least congress or the senate. That's dictator like.

His approval numbers are in the 30's - 40's, He literally just cause the largest protest in American history. The Women march protest was far greater his inauguration, and his inauguration was bizarrely small.

Obama vs Trump


Protest against his position

Now people are protesting at airports.


Again Hilary and Trump numbers were both low, Trump wining didn't mean American approve his position it means a unpopular candidate edge out another unpopular candidate.

Every time I read some say Liberials are upset I want to say no idiot most in Americans in general are upset his freaking approval is in the 30-40 ish. And this not every day political protesting the scale of protesting is unusual and if some mocks it shows they don't take this country being divided and falling apart serious.

My point is most Americans are against Trump positions, but reality doesn't seem to register with Trump or the small segment of America who actually support these positions. It's not liberal vs conservative. It's 60-70% of country in odds with Trump.
Your inauguration images have already been proven to be false, but of course that doesn't stop libs from continuing the lies.

Trump is #MAGA. Deal with it.
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