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I often have to tell some people that regardless of how progressive things may seem, Metro Atlanta is still in Georgia and race relations still leave a lot to be desired.
I'm sorry but I have to take offense to this. As a native Atlantian I get sick and tired of this played out arguement. Like the south is SOOO different from other parts of the country in regard to race relations. Sorry but ALL we have is much more well defined history of discrimination but in todays south we are NO different than anywhere else. ALL parts of this country have issues with race, no place is immune!
Second part I totally disagree with is that many other parts of the country do not have to deal with their communities literally changing for the worse overnight. Not to say that this doesnt happen but I doubt if it happens anywhere like it does in the south. I cant tell you how many times I have had someone not from here comment on this phenomemon. They simply cant believe that Clayton county or most of Dekalb used to be all white. Whenever I tell someone that I grew up in Clayton county I can always tell if there not from here by the looks they give me. Like, but your white, which has actually been said to be on a few occasions. Bottomline is that we all agree that no one wants to see your home town change for the worse. If I or any white was sooo scared of seeing a black face on the block we would moved to Montana years ago. That isnt and for most of us has never been the problem. The problem is with an entire area being overun with low class folks who bring the area down and ruin it for ALL races!
I'm sorry but I have to take offense to this. As a native Atlantian I get sick and tired of this played out arguement. Like the south is SOOO different from other parts of the country in regard to race relations. Sorry but ALL we have is much more well defined history of discrimination but in todays south we are NO different than anywhere else. ALL parts of this country have issues with race, no place is immune!
Second part I totally disagree with is that many other parts of the country do not have to deal with their communities literally changing for the worse overnight. Not to say that this doesnt happen but I doubt if it happens anywhere like it does in the south. I cant tell you how many times I have had someone not from here comment on this phenomemon. They simply cant believe that Clayton county or most of Dekalb used to be all white. Whenever I tell someone that I grew up in Clayton county I can always tell if there not from here by the looks they give me. Like, but your white, which has actually been said to be on a few occasions. Bottomline is that we all agree that no one wants to see your home town change for the worse. If I or any white was sooo scared of seeing a black face on the block we would moved to Montana years ago. That isnt and for most of us has never been the problem. The problem is with an entire area being overun with low class folks who bring the area down and ruin it for ALL races!
I'm sorry but I have to take offense to this. As a native Atlantian I get sick and tired of this played out arguement. Like the south is SOOO different from other parts of the country in regard to race relations. Sorry but ALL we have is much more well defined history of discrimination but in todays south we are NO different than anywhere else. ALL parts of this country have issues with race, no place is immune!
Second part I totally disagree with is that many other parts of the country do not have to deal with their communities literally changing for the worse overnight. Not to say that this doesnt happen but I doubt if it happens anywhere like it does in the south. I cant tell you how many times I have had someone not from here comment on this phenomemon. They simply cant believe that Clayton county or most of Dekalb used to be all white. Whenever I tell someone that I grew up in Clayton county I can always tell if there not from here by the looks they give me. Like, but your white, which has actually been said to be on a few occasions. Bottomline is that we all agree that no one wants to see your home town change for the worse. If I or any white was sooo scared of seeing a black face on the block we would moved to Montana years ago. That isnt and for most of us has never been the problem. The problem is with an entire area being overun with low class folks who bring the area down and ruin it for ALL races!
As a white DeKalb Countian, I find this offensive.
I'm sorry but I have to take offense to this. As a native Atlantian I get sick and tired of this played out arguement. Like the south is SOOO different from other parts of the country in regard to race relations. Sorry but ALL we have is much more well defined history of discrimination but in todays south we are NO different than anywhere else. ALL parts of this country have issues with race, no place is immune!
Second part I totally disagree with is that many other parts of the country do not have to deal with their communities literally changing for the worse overnight. Not to say that this doesnt happen but I doubt if it happens anywhere like it does in the south. I cant tell you how many times I have had someone not from here comment on this phenomemon. They simply cant believe that Clayton county or most of Dekalb used to be all white. Whenever I tell someone that I grew up in Clayton county I can always tell if there not from here by the looks they give me. Like, but your white, which has actually been said to be on a few occasions. Bottomline is that we all agree that no one wants to see your home town change for the worse. If I or any white was sooo scared of seeing a black face on the block we would moved to Montana years ago. That isnt and for most of us has never been the problem. The problem is with an entire area being overun with low class folks who bring the area down and ruin it for ALL races!
I never once said that other parts of the country don't deal with this. I was born and raised in California and I can name several areas that myself or other family members lived in that have changed for the worse. Race relations in California aren't all that great either, but the difference is that Blacks usually don't shoulder the blame in a lot of cases where suburban communities have declined (unfortunately, our Hispanic brethren usually get the blame these days).
When I tell people that I am originally from Inglewood, California, I get the same funny looks that you may get when you tell people you are from Clayton County. In spite of that, in my opinion even a lot of the OTP areas in Metro Atlanta that some posters on here consider "low-class" or "ghetto" are nowhere near ghetto in comparison to some of the really shady areas that some of us have seen or been in elsewhere. Then again, some of this may be cultural since what is "ghetto" to one person (Black, White, or otherwise) may not be "ghetto" to someone else. The same argument can be made for areas that some consider "country", "upscale", "middle class", and so on. Perception is not always reality.
"What else is there to do? Whites can't keep any of our own neighborhoods, it seems. As soon as we have one, government forces send low-income, low-cultured, section 8 non-whites into our communities, which lowers home values and starts the deterioration of the communities and schools.
We've moved away too often, and I suppose we're tired of our once prosperous areas being lost. Too many communities lost, occurring too often."
I started this thread and while it has gone done many paths the above statement sums up my problem with "diversity" and more so the reason that SO many of us are pissed off!
Regardless of your race put yourself in the shoes of someone else for a change. Believe it or not I try to do this so I can gain perspective on various situations. Simply put, how would you like to see your neighborhood, schools, churches, shopping centers/malls, etc.. ALL change for the worse? Would you be ticked off if you had to move ever 5 to 10 years to get away from the race/culture/class of people that were doing this? Would you be upset if after you fled you came back to see the former area you once called home turned into a complete ghetto? Would it bother you to see your former home turned into a boarding house with 10-15 adults at a time living in a 4 bedroom house(that happened to mine)? If you can answer this HONESTLY then YOU will gain insight as to why many whites feel this way and why most will NOT stay and fight as some suggest.
Yes I totally understand.However it seems you apparently think this is acceptable for blacks!What are you saying?This is why some people would think you and City Fanatic are racist.(not calling You that,just trying to make a point).A racist is a person who has the idea that negative behavior is "innate" or a trait that in turn causes one race to be "inferior".Everything you have said is just that.I and others have tried to tell you that this has nothing to do with RACE.It has everything to do with CLASS.City F, and yourself did not make those distinctions.You both said "black" people.So I am not trying to be argumentative or rude,but on second thought,I would have to concur with MisterNY,that is RACIST based on what the definition of the word is.If you can elaborate then please do'
As someone said earlier,black people of similar class as whites often lament at the same things.These are the same types of discussions my parents and their freinds,myself and my friends have had about the people that have changed things for the worse in my old neighborhood.Generally speaking ,people who do not have much ,do not have a good track record of taking care of their surroundings.I don't mean to sound elitist but it is the factual truth.
I bought a brand new house in a "very transitional" area ,where my house is the nicest house on the street.I take care of my yard,the lawn is always manicured and the flowers and shrubs are abundant.My street is mostly older homes with a couple of newer homes like mine(3.5y/o) here and there.However even though there are older houses,they are for the most part clean and the lawns are well kept.2 blocks behind me are some of the most run down places I have ever seen.Luckily you do not have to go through that to get to my house. When I first bought the house,my parents were not happy!!My mom was scared a little.It has gotten better and around the corner are new condos and luxury town homes that are 90%percent A.A. owned.The street that leads to my house are very nice 2 story Victorian style new houses where black professors and Doctors at nearby Morehouse,Spelman and Clark-Atlanta among the few professions.Black professionals are the ones leading the charge for better neighborhoods in the Southwest, Westend,and in Westview.Ever driven through Peyton Forest, Collier Heights and Sandtown neighborhoods?They are extremely nice.Some of these neighborhoods are solidly middle class.
My parents 2nd home in Clayton is in a very upper middle class neighborhood.It is a neighboorhood of houses in the $200k-$500k range.It is very diverse.Even though there are still mostly blacks if one minority can be a majority among other minorities.It was mostly white when we first moved there.So yes white people did move out,but the neighborhood never went down.Although 2 years ago,one or two of the houses went into foreclosure and a black family bought it one.It was a very nice house.2 story brick Williamsburg Colonial style house.The people who bought it started parking on the front lawn,which left a red dirt trail on the previously well manicured lawn,then they put plastic green $10 chairs on the portico that had nice white columns.Then they put bars on the windows!!This type of neighborhood ,you do not do that!!A white couple bought another house on another street,this house was one where one of the builders went belly up and was liquidating.They had a NASCAR race CAR !!A old raggedy one!!They had all these car parts on the lawn.The doors looked dingy,then they got one of those above ground pools that you could see from the street.It was such a mess.Toys always littered about the yard and driveway.Awfull.There was a covenant in place but it was ignored until they were threatened by one of the neighbors who was a black lawyer.Certain things the covenant could not enforce.Its better now,but they both do some "ghetto" and "redneck" stuff from time to time.
Which is my point.This is not just a black thing.You have not "ghetto" people doing these things but "redneck" people with money putting tires in there yards and calling the planters because they put flowers in them and painted them "red-white-and-blue"!Yet i would never say that just because they are white.You ever been to the North Georgia mountains and seen rundown "Trailer Parks" that are 100% white?
Speaking of education,the schools up there are as bad as the schools in the inner city!!
I have some family members and even friends that are so snobbish because of their wealth and education that they think that even white people with money do not have their pedigree.Its ridiculous that anyone in any race would have such ideas.
You asked us to stand in your shoes,but can you stand in my shoes and see what I'm saying?How am I as a person with a good education,served my country,pay taxes,involved in my community and has pride in his abilities to better himself daily suppose to sit "idly by" while people basically say that I and my people who look like me bring chaos and destruction to neighborhoods solely because of my race?Does that sound logical to you?
Tdiddy, I know you wish this not to be true, but Henry County grew with a white demographic and is deteriorating at a rapid pace. Once a very desirable area for white flight moving from Clayton, look at the increasing crime and decreasing property values which are decreasing at a higher percentage than any other metro area other than Clayton. The Cascade area you speak of is another fine example whereas there are affluent Blacks living. Sure there are nice homes in the cascade area, but crime is rampant and the public schools are dangerous. It remains to be seen how the foreclosure mess will hit this area. It is not an area in which most will want to live. It is not everyone as I said. If criminal whites wish to live with criminal blacks, so be it. It is arrogant for me to force my standards on others.
As far as the comment Clayton is not diversified, the commenter does not know the area very well. As so far as I can see, there are many Latinos, Asians, Europeans, Africans and quite a number of others. Diversity at its finest.
One other thing.Most people do not want to live in a Homogeneous society.What major cities in the U.S. that are only white or black,are people flocking to?Salt Lake City and thats about all I can think of.Its nice but its not great by most peoples opinion.Honolulu is the number one city in the America for the best Quality of Life in the World survey.It is very diverse.Low crime and ULTRA HIGH prices to buy a home.In fact most of the places that are in that survey are pretty diverse and also very expensive.
People who post in forums know exactly what they're doing. If they regularly read other posts, they know who's frequenting the boards. They know who their enemies will be. Forums allow them to sound off with relative anonymity, where they'd never have the guts to say some of what they say in public. They're doing us a favor, because without them you wouldn't get to read the smart responses from the opposing camp. I have especially enjoyed every one of afonega's responses, because he thinks before he writes and his posts include all kinds of facts I didn't know. He's never confrontational, just passionate, and he has no problem saying "good point" even when someone is being a total jackass back to him. (There are others who are good at this, too. But his are the ones that stand out in this particular thread.) Anyone who has ANYTHING to say should take note of how he does this; you'd win more support if you'd debate like he does.
Let's hear it for the rabblerousers! Without them we'd have no intelligent counterpoints to enjoy. And some of the stuff is downright entertaining.
People who post in forums know exactly what they're doing. If they regularly read other posts, they know who's frequenting the boards. They know who their enemies will be. Forums allow them to sound off with relative anonymity, where they'd never have the guts to say some of what they say in public. They're doing us a favor, because without them you wouldn't get to read the smart responses from the opposing camp. I have especially enjoyed every one of afonega's responses, because he thinks before he writes and his posts include all kinds of facts I didn't know. He's never confrontational, just passionate, and he has no problem saying "good point" even when someone is being a total jackass back to him. (There are others who are good at this, too. But his are the ones that stand out in this particular thread.) Anyone who has ANYTHING to say should take note of how he does this; you'd win more support if you'd debate like he does.
Let's hear it for the rabblerousers! Without them we'd have no intelligent counterpoints to enjoy. And some of the stuff is downright entertaining.
You really made my day.I think that if people are willing to look at reason instead of emotion,there is always room for agreement or compromise.Sometimes I am wrong and I gladly say it when I am proven wrong.Being wrong does not make you an Idiot,being wrong and continuing those wrong statements DO!!Especially AFTER the facts have all been established.
You really made my day.I think that if people are willing to look at reason instead of emotion,there is always room for agreement or compromise.Sometimes I am wrong and I gladly say it when I am proven wrong.Being wrong does not make you an Idiot,being wrong and continuing those wrong statements DO!!Especially AFTER the facts have all been established.
Another great post .
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This Is What I Don't Understand
What are you saying?This is why some people would think you and City Fanatic are racist.(not calling You that,just trying to make a point).A racist is a person who has the idea that negative behavior is "innate" or a trait that in turn causes one race to be "inferior".Everything you have said is just that.I and others have tried to tell you that this has nothing to do with RACE.It has everything to do with CLASS.City F, and yourself did not make those distinctions.You both said "black" people.So I am not trying to be argumentative or rude,but on second thought,I would have to concur with MisterNY,that is RACIST based on what the definition of the word is.If you can elaborate then please do'
area ,where my house is the nicest house on the street.I take care of my yard,the lawn is always manicured and the flowers and shrubs are abundant.My street is mostly older homes with a couple of newer homes like mine(3.5y/o) here and there.However even though there are older houses,they are for the most part clean and the lawns are well kept.2 blocks behind me are some of the most run down places I have ever seen.Luckily you do not have to go through that to get to my house. When I first bought the house,my parents were not happy!!My mom was scared a little.It has gotten better and around the corner are new condos and luxury town homes that are 90%percent A.A. owned.The street that leads to my house are very nice 2 story Victorian style new houses where black professors and Doctors at nearby Morehouse,Spelman and Clark-Atlanta among the few professions.Black professionals are the ones leading the charge for better neighborhoods in the Southwest, Westend,and in Westview.Ever driven through Peyton Forest, Collier Heights and Sandtown neighborhoods?They are extremely nice.Some of these neighborhoods are solidly middle class.
Then they put bars on the windows!!
This type of neighborhood ,you do not do that!!A white couple bought another house on another street,this house was one where one of the builders went belly up and was liquidating.They had a NASCAR race CAR !!
How am I as a person with a good education,served my country,pay taxes,involved in my community and has pride in his abilities to better himself daily suppose to sit "idly by" while people basically say that I and my people who look like me bring chaos and destruction to neighborhoods solely because of my race?Does that sound logical to you?
:ok:THANKS SO MUCH!!
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