Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The United States was wrong, and their sworn enemy--the Confederacy--was right? Wow, what amazing things we learn around here! There may have been several contributing causes to the Civil War, but the common fuel to all these fires was, without question, slavery. Slavery was THE common social issue in not just the years, but even the decades, prior to the Civil War. Also, even though only a few Southerners owned slaves, the overwhelming majority of Southern whites defended "that peculiar institution."
Furthermore, it was the Southern states' decision to secede. They had plenty of opportunity to get with the times, wean off of slavery, and develop a more modern economy (sound familiar?). Or at the very least they could have shown a little more give-and-take with the Northeast and Midwest. But no no no, they erected their own illegitimate government and fought a war, a war against the United States. That's what the Confederate flag means to me, Desert kid, desertion from and treason against the United States of America.
I'm very sorry, but your views of this portion of American history are highly distorted and in need of serious correction.
Sorry that I didn't get back with you, we had a power bump here and it erased everything on my computer, so I have been retrieving everything all day.
Yes, I believe the C.S.A. was right, legally, and if you want to get down to diplomacy, wanted to get peace quickest until it was shown otherwise.
I have said it all across the forum here for ages now, you cannot change a socially ingrained economy overnight. The ultimate result of that was very vivid in the 1870s to 1960s, all you do when you something like that and radically change everything all that is going to happen is fighting and bitterness. I have always thought that if the Confederacy won, the boll weevil would come along in the 1890s, destroying the cotton crop and rendering slavery a hinderance, because money talks. But without the radical changes and the bad backlash that happened in our world, wouldn't happen in this different one because it wouldn't have happened.
And you have shown what you think of the flag, reinforcing my belief, that the flag's meaning is objective.
Hook nose creeps? Oh my God, that comment certainly represents the non-racist aspect of the neo-confederacy very well. Thanks for the object lesson.
HOOK NOSE...now I assume it means a certain race of people? Please, go further and eloborate to me, what Hook nose means to you...this will be funny and surely a lesson for you!
HOOK NOSE...now I assume it means a certain race of people? Please, go further and eloborate to me, what Hook nose means to you...this will be funny and surely a lesson for you!
Sorry, no interest in any lesson you might want to teach me. Do have a nice day.
Neil you mention NAZIS but I beg to differ on that, Hitler and Nazi Germany forbid the Confederate flag, why, because it represented State Rights!
As for the COURTS PROTECTING HATE, why shouldn't they? T hey protect murderes', child rapists, pedophiles, ***** rights, and everything that degrades the HUMAN RACE...hell they even protect BP who is killing millions of us every second...MONEY TALKS AND BULL-**** WALKS!
"Therefore, there are two apparent rudiments to this war. One is Slavery and the other is State Rights. But the latter is only a cover for the former. If Slavery were out of the way there would be no trouble from State Rights. The war, then, is for Slavery, and nothing else." --Charles Sumner, "The Barbarism of Slavery," July 4, 1863.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert kid
Sorry that I didn't get back with you, we had a power bump here and it erased everything on my computer, so I have been retrieving everything all day.
Yes, I believe the C.S.A. was right, legally, and if you want to get down to diplomacy, wanted to get peace quickest until it was shown otherwise.
Show me evidence of when and where the United States recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate government. Until then, I take the pro-America position that they were illegitimate, not the anti-America position that they weren't.
Quote:
I have said it all across the forum here for ages now, you cannot change a socially ingrained economy overnight. The ultimate result of that was very vivid in the 1870s to 1960s, all you do when you something like that and radically change everything all that is going to happen is fighting and bitterness. I have always thought that if the Confederacy won, the boll weevil would come along in the 1890s, destroying the cotton crop and rendering slavery a hinderance, because money talks. But without the radical changes and the bad backlash that happened in our world, wouldn't happen in this different one because it wouldn't have happened.
And whose fault was that? Slavery was legal in some Northern states for a time. But unlike the South, who refused to modernize their economy, the "North" got with the times and moved on past slavery. Southern states had nobody to blame but themselves for their doomed economic system. Stop shifting the blame, Desert kid.
Quote:
And you have shown what you think of the flag, reinforcing my belief, that the flag's meaning is objective.
Newsflash: I ain't trying to convince you. I post my thoughts for the others who read this thread in hopes that they will stop, and think for a bit. An open mind goes a long way, you know.
Show me evidence of when and where the United States recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate government. Until then, I take the pro-America position that they were illegitimate, not the anti-America position that they weren't.
I never said the U.S. ever recognized the Confederacy, I just said that Constitutionally, the south was in the right, that secession WAS NOT illegal until 1870.
And whose fault was that? Slavery was legal in some Northern states for a time. But unlike the South, who refused to modernize their economy, the "North" got with the times and moved on past slavery. Southern states had nobody to blame but themselves for their doomed economic system. Stop shifting the blame, Desert kid.
But here is the thing, the South by nature is agricultural, having industry in southern cities, sure, but it was so ingrained that if it were instantly taken away it would ruin everyone, slaveowner or not, which ultimately did happen. I'm the not shifting blame here.
Newsflash: I ain't trying to convince you. I post my thoughts for the others who read this thread in hopes that they will stop, and think for a bit. An open mind goes a long way, you know.
My responses in BOLD. I have spent a good portion of my lifetime, especially my teenage years pondering this, reading books of all sorts, pro-South and pro-North books, neutral, etc. And an open mind led me to my conclusion.
"Therefore, there are two apparent rudiments to this war. One is Slavery and the other is State Rights. But the latter is only a cover for the former. If Slavery were out of the way there would be no trouble from State Rights. The war, then, is for Slavery, and nothing else." --Charles Sumner, "The Barbarism of Slavery," July 4, 1863.
Show me evidence of when and where the United States recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate government. Until then, I take the pro-America position that they were illegitimate, not the anti-America position that they weren't.
And whose fault was that? Slavery was legal in some Northern states for a time. But unlike the South, who refused to modernize their economy, the "North" got with the times and moved on past slavery. Southern states had nobody to blame but themselves for their doomed economic system. Stop shifting the blame, Desert kid.
Newsflash: I ain't trying to convince you. I post my thoughts for the others who read this thread in hopes that they will stop, and think for a bit. An open mind goes a long way, you know.
SLAVERY EXISTS IN AFRICA AND MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD TODAY AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO FIGHT IT, MY BOY???
You say slavery only occured in the South, the southern US but it now happens in AFRICA and ASIA today in the year 2010 and you worry about a CONFEDERATE FLAG..please give it a break, brother!!!
"Therefore, there are two apparent rudiments to this war. One is Slavery and the other is State Rights. But the latter is only a cover for the former. If Slavery were out of the way there would be no trouble from State Rights. The war, then, is for Slavery, and nothing else." --Charles Sumner, "The Barbarism of Slavery," July 4, 1863.
Show me evidence of when and where the United States recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate government. Until then, I take the pro-America position that they were illegitimate, not the anti-America position that they weren't.
And whose fault was that? Slavery was legal in some Northern states for a time. But unlike the South, who refused to modernize their economy, the "North" got with the times and moved on past slavery. Southern states had nobody to blame but themselves for their doomed economic system. Stop shifting the blame, Desert kid.
Newsflash: I ain't trying to convince you. I post my thoughts for the others who read this thread in hopes that they will stop, and think for a bit. An open mind goes a long way, you know.
I agree with almost everything you say.BUT one thing.The South was not totally to blame for its "economic" system.That kinda messes with the fact that it was ONE country prior to the war.Also many Northern companies benefited from slavery and agriculture.From the iron to make the tools,later the cotton gin,the insurance companies that insured the slaves.Not to mention there were PLENTY of Northerners that actually made money directly from owning slaves in the South.
You must also remember that cities like Richmond,New Orleans,Charleston,Savannah and D.C.(it was considered South before the war.) were very wealthy.Cotton might as well been GOLD.King Cotton remember?
Southern plantations generated three-quarters of the world's cotton supply.
Quote:
By the time of the Civil War, cotton accounted for almost 60% of American exports, representing a total value of nearly $300 million a year. The rise in population from the cotton industry even brought statehood to southern territories. The admission of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida ,and Texas,into the Union brought increase of power to the South in the United States Congress. Cotton’s central place in the national economy and its international importance led Senator James Henry Hammond of South Carolina to make a famous boast in 1858:
“ Without firing a gun, without drawing a sword, should they make war on us, we could bring the whole world to our feet... What would happen if no cotton was furnished for three years?... England would topple headlong and carry the whole civilized world with her save the South. No, you dare not to make war on cotton. No power on the earth dares to make war upon it. Cotton is King. ”
Southerners thought their survival depended on the sympathy of Europe to offset the power of the Union. They believed that cotton was so essential to Europe that they would intervene in any civil war.
The South bet on support from Europe.They did not get it of course.This was a major miscalculation.
SLAVERY EXISTS IN AFRICA AND MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD TODAY AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO FIGHT IT, MY BOY???
You say slavery only occured in the South, the southern US but it now happens in AFRICA and ASIA today in the year 2010 and you worry about a CONFEDERATE FLAG..please give it a break, brother!!!
What does it matter if it occurred in other parts of the world. Any group that practices it is wrong.
Alas, but only YOUR opinion. This is America, that flag is protected under the first Ammendment, banning it would be the most un-American thing to do. But, since I have wrangled with the traitor's/treason allegation dozens of times, I will tell you now that it was not treason.
People can do what they want as far as I'm concerned as long as they don't come and personally bother me. I still believe that flag is racist. I've been in the south nearly all my life, grew up in south GA and some of the folks I knew who waved this flag the most were the most racist folks ever. I too have heard the confederacy called treason many times and I do in fact believe they were traitors and no better than terrorist.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There may have been several contributing causes to the Civil War, but the common fuel to all these fires was, without question, slavery. Slavery was THE common social issue in not just the years, but even the decades, prior to the Civil War. Also, even though only a few Southerners owned slaves, the overwhelming majority of Southern whites defended "that peculiar institution."
Slavery today in 2010
