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Take rail away from those cities and see what happens. Nightmare doesn't even begin to describe it.
hypothesis contrary to fact (what if fallacy). If rail had never been built that would not result in the same congestion as taking rail away today. Congestion doesnt go to infinity, it is self limiting. the best you can do with any strategy is to increase overall capacity.
Again, my point is that rail will not reduce congestion.
The *only* thing that will reduce congestion is variable rate tolls on roads.
Ill add that the original question was "why are people in austin so against light rail". My answer is because that it will *not* relieve congestion. It will provide an alternate means of transport for those who can/want to ride the rail system.
rail never alleviates traffic. Please name one city in the entire world where rail has alleviated traffic?
The value of rail is as a way to attract people that want to ride rail to austin. Im not saying that is a bad reason, just that there will be no significant reduction in traffic due to rail. There is a benefit to the people that want to ride rail for convenience/reduced commute time etc.
And if an express bus did go to Crestview, Highland Mall and others it would lose the competitive time advantage of managed lanes versus the train since it would have to get off Mopac and 183.
So again buses are better at meeting some types demands over rail and vice versa.
The two miles down Lamar to Highland/Crestview from 183 are meaningless in the total time. You are twisting into a pretzel to justify an inefficient, but trendy solution.
There is ZERO demand that Metro Rail does or will meet more efficiently than Metro Express buses - with or without capital costs. HOT lanes - paid for by tolls - will only tilt the results more towards bus.
When light rail, commuter rail or whatever you want to call it was first proposed here, it was done so with arrogance and complete disregard for public opinion which is pretty much how Capital Metro does everything. Aside from the millions they spend doing the studies and trying to sell it they pretty much botched it from the start. I think the arrogance of telling people they will just have to give up a lane on Lamar, because they chose to live is sprawlberg was a little over the top. In fact nobody here is going to win any arguments telling us we wrong and that you know what is best. Considering how poorly Capitol Metro is run, and how poorly our bus system works and the stuff they waste money on I concede they had an uphill battle to begin with but they just made it worse because that is what they do.
This was put to a vote as a bond issue and overwhelmingly voted down. Then CapMetro doing what they seem to do best, they proceeded on with the project without the bonds and with their own reserves, which happened to be pretty sizable since that .25% of the 8.25% of our sales tax is theirs.
It was brought up over and over prior to the vote and during the first roll out, what about a light rail route from the airport to downtown. The response I personally got at an open meeting was that was in the plans but would be the last part of the project and 25 years out. Which really seemed odd to me because if you really wanted to sell this idea and how it worked, then what better way than smooth transportation to and from the airport? Then once you have the working well and show everyone what light rail can by you can expand on it with public support, but nope that is the last thing CapMetro wants to do. But hey they know best right?
So why do we still not like it? To be fair I love light rail, commuter rail and bullet trains and having lived in Tokyo, know everything they can be and just how awesome they really are. What we have here is the clusterfork called CapMetro that built light rail on existing tracks that really does not go anywhere and has poorly connecting shuttles and an abysmal operating schedule. I live near a terminal in Cedar Park, and work near a terminal near Kramer but have no way to get from Kramer to work and back. What good is a rail if it can’t get close to your end destination? How about folks in South Austin who don’t live anywhere near it, what does it do for them?
We don’t trust CapMetro, in order to have trust there has to be competence and they have yet to show us that have anything like that. They operate with the mission statement that they know what is best and their goal it to provide transportation for the less fortunate and they don’t even do that well. When they start operating that they work for us and with a mission statement to provide a timely, convenient, and economical transportation for the working class then things will start to change.
When light rail, commuter rail or whatever you want to call it was first proposed here, it was done so with arrogance and complete disregard for public opinion which is pretty much how Capital Metro does everything. Aside from the millions they spend doing the studies and trying to sell it they pretty much botched it from the start. I think the arrogance of telling people they will just have to give up a lane on Lamar, because they chose to live is sprawlberg was a little over the top. In fact nobody here is going to win any arguments telling us we wrong and that you know what is best. Considering how poorly Capitol Metro is run, and how poorly our bus system works and the stuff they waste money on I concede they had an uphill battle to begin with but they just made it worse because that is what they do.
This was put to a vote as a bond issue and overwhelmingly voted down. Then CapMetro doing what they seem to do best, they proceeded on with the project without the bonds and with their own reserves, which happened to be pretty sizable since that .25% of the 8.25% of our sales tax is theirs.
It was brought up over and over prior to the vote and during the first roll out, what about a light rail route from the airport to downtown. The response I personally got at an open meeting was that was in the plans but would be the last part of the project and 25 years out. Which really seemed odd to me because if you really wanted to sell this idea and how it worked, then what better way than smooth transportation to and from the airport? Then once you have the working well and show everyone what light rail can by you can expand on it with public support, but nope that is the last thing CapMetro wants to do. But hey they know best right?
So why do we still not like it? To be fair I love light rail, commuter rail and bullet trains and having lived in Tokyo, know everything they can be and just how awesome they really are. What we have here is the clusterfork called CapMetro that built light rail on existing tracks that really does not go anywhere and has poorly connecting shuttles and an abysmal operating schedule. I live near a terminal in Cedar Park, and work near a terminal near Kramer but have no way to get from Kramer to work and back. What good is a rail if it can’t get close to your end destination? How about folks in South Austin who don’t live anywhere near it, what does it do for them?
We don’t trust CapMetro, in order to have trust there has to be competence and they have yet to show us that have anything like that. They operate with the mission statement that they know what is best and their goal it to provide transportation for the less fortunate and they don’t even do that well. When they start operating that they work for us and with a mission statement to provide a timely, convenient, and economical transportation for the working class then things will start to change.
Lots of misinformation here - let me respond to just one:
It wasn't overwhelmingly voted down - its was vary narrowly voted down - the difference was less than 2,000 votes in the metro area in a presidential election that drew in tons more suburban voters. And COA voters approved it.
When light rail, commuter rail or whatever you want to call it was first proposed here, it was done so with arrogance and complete disregard for public opinion which is pretty much how Capital Metro does everything. Aside from the millions they spend doing the studies and trying to sell it they pretty much botched it from the start. I think the arrogance of telling people they will just have to give up a lane on Lamar, because they chose to live is sprawlberg was a little over the top. In fact nobody here is going to win any arguments telling us we wrong and that you know what is best. Considering how poorly Capitol Metro is run, and how poorly our bus system works and the stuff they waste money on I concede they had an uphill battle to begin with but they just made it worse because that is what they do.
This was put to a vote as a bond issue and overwhelmingly voted down. Then CapMetro doing what they seem to do best, they proceeded on with the project without the bonds and with their own reserves, which happened to be pretty sizable since that .25% of the 8.25% of our sales tax is theirs.
It was brought up over and over prior to the vote and during the first roll out, what about a light rail route from the airport to downtown. The response I personally got at an open meeting was that was in the plans but would be the last part of the project and 25 years out. Which really seemed odd to me because if you really wanted to sell this idea and how it worked, then what better way than smooth transportation to and from the airport? Then once you have the working well and show everyone what light rail can by you can expand on it with public support, but nope that is the last thing CapMetro wants to do. But hey they know best right?
So why do we still not like it? To be fair I love light rail, commuter rail and bullet trains and having lived in Tokyo, know everything they can be and just how awesome they really are. What we have here is the clusterfork called CapMetro that built light rail on existing tracks that really does not go anywhere and has poorly connecting shuttles and an abysmal operating schedule. I live near a terminal in Cedar Park, and work near a terminal near Kramer but have no way to get from Kramer to work and back. What good is a rail if it can’t get close to your end destination? How about folks in South Austin who don’t live anywhere near it, what does it do for them?
We don’t trust CapMetro, in order to have trust there has to be competence and they have yet to show us that have anything like that. They operate with the mission statement that they know what is best and their goal it to provide transportation for the less fortunate and they don’t even do that well. When they start operating that they work for us and with a mission statement to provide a timely, convenient, and economical transportation for the working class then things will start to change.
I agree with all of this. But CapMetro is all we have. A hundred people a day are moving here?
I went to a public meeting at the CapMetro HQ a couple of weeks ago. It was actually encouraging. But more people need to get involved and hold them accountable. They need more voices to show up at these meetings. The people who hate it the loudest either don't use it at all or just don't want to get involved.
When light rail, commuter rail or whatever you want to call it was first proposed here, it was done so with arrogance and complete disregard for public opinion which is pretty much how Capital Metro does everything. Aside from the millions they spend doing the studies and trying to sell it they pretty much botched it from the start. I think the arrogance of telling people they will just have to give up a lane on Lamar, because they chose to live is sprawlberg was a little over the top. In fact nobody here is going to win any arguments telling us we wrong and that you know what is best. Considering how poorly Capitol Metro is run, and how poorly our bus system works and the stuff they waste money on I concede they had an uphill battle to begin with but they just made it worse because that is what they do.
This was put to a vote as a bond issue and overwhelmingly voted down. Then CapMetro doing what they seem to do best, they proceeded on with the project without the bonds and with their own reserves, which happened to be pretty sizable since that .25% of the 8.25% of our sales tax is theirs.
It was brought up over and over prior to the vote and during the first roll out, what about a light rail route from the airport to downtown. The response I personally got at an open meeting was that was in the plans but would be the last part of the project and 25 years out. Which really seemed odd to me because if you really wanted to sell this idea and how it worked, then what better way than smooth transportation to and from the airport? Then once you have the working well and show everyone what light rail can by you can expand on it with public support, but nope that is the last thing CapMetro wants to do. But hey they know best right?
So why do we still not like it? To be fair I love light rail, commuter rail and bullet trains and having lived in Tokyo, know everything they can be and just how awesome they really are. What we have here is the clusterfork called CapMetro that built light rail on existing tracks that really does not go anywhere and has poorly connecting shuttles and an abysmal operating schedule. I live near a terminal in Cedar Park, and work near a terminal near Kramer but have no way to get from Kramer to work and back. What good is a rail if it can’t get close to your end destination? How about folks in South Austin who don’t live anywhere near it, what does it do for them?
We don’t trust CapMetro, in order to have trust there has to be competence and they have yet to show us that have anything like that. They operate with the mission statement that they know what is best and their goal it to provide transportation for the less fortunate and they don’t even do that well. When they start operating that they work for us and with a mission statement to provide a timely, convenient, and economical transportation for the working class then things will start to change.
One of the reasons it did not go to the airport is b/c the new bridge spanning the Colorado would cost almost as much as the entire Leander-DT line. I think there would also be an issue with crossing SH 71 that would also increase the cost.
The "last mile" is quite often a problem with transit. If I were working at the Domain I would use a "beater bike" locked up there to get to work from Kramer station.
Metrorail was limited in scope intentionally and was done on the cheap. If you look at other systems they have added lines to fill in gaps over time. It is a many decade process, e.g. Tysons Corner in VA is just now getting metro service.
And these issues you mention are true to a point but to be fair almost all sunbelt low-density cities have the same problems. Transit needs density to be efficient (and it is coming).
With all the congestion in Austin, can someone explain, in very basic/ elementary terms, why the light rail that currently exists is viewed as a failure?
Personally speaking, I am not a fan of the location, but I want light rail/ an L-train/ subway to be built in Austin to alleviate traffic, and can't believe Dallas (a more fiscally conservative city) has it while Austin doesn't. I personally wish there was a train that went from the four corners of Austin suburbs (northwest, northeast, southwest, southeast) into downtown. If that isn't the plan it seems ridiculous. I hear talk of having it run from the now vacant Highland Mall to Riverside Drive. Is that the plan? Is so that's stupid.
Also - I have to fully admit that I know virtually nothing about it's current route, as I live in southwest Austin and work downtown, and have never even seen the train.
Having lots of rail doesn't make it effective, just look at DART's ridership per mile. Austin's ridership per mile is abysmal.
Coming from Houston, I think Austin would do well to follow it's model over DFW. Park&Ride commuter buses provide express service from outlying areas to dense employment centers while light rail serves as the backbone for the core and last mile for commuters.
Having lots of rail doesn't make it effective, just look at DART's ridership per mile. Austin's ridership per mile is abysmal.
Coming from Houston, I think Austin would do well to follow it's model over DFW. Park&Ride commuter buses provide express service from outlying areas to dense employment centers while light rail serves as the backbone for the core and last mile for commuters.
I agree with you but you will find very Austinites, willing to follow the example that Houston has set.
I agree with you but you will find very Austinites, willing to follow the example that Houston has set.
I know, their Austin-tude would never allow it......
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