HOA wants to charge an up-front fee of over $400 before they will release the HOA docs (San Antonio: sale, 2015)

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by Bo

If it's paid at the closing, once the closing's over, the seller isn't a member anymore.

Nonsense and quit defending the practice. Is this how HOA board members such as yourself try to defend the indefensible?
I suppose by your logic you can market the false hype that HOAs preserve value for homeowners because all the homeowners that lost money when they sold weren't homeowners - therefore homeowners never lost money? Is this the logic you always use to hide the inconvenient truth about HOAs, the boards, and the HOA vendors?

As you may notice from the OP's inquiry, the closing isn't going to happen unless the resale certificate is in place and that isn't going to happen unless an up-front fee of over $400 is paid. The $400 gets paid regardless of whether a closing occurs. Not only has the HOA board forced open the pockets of its involuntary members for gouging by the vendors - the HOA corporation is enabling the vendors to jeopardize the sale of members' property for the financial gain of the vendors. You can pretend all you want but this just demonstrates that HOAs and their vendors prey upon the involuntary members of the HOA corporation.

Originally Posted by Bo

About the only fees my HOA charges members are late fees. Pay your dues on time and you can avoid most fees mine assesses.

Curiously you strayed from "about the only fees" to avoiding "most fees" yours assesses. So "about the only" is losing credibility.

"Your" HOA is charging assessments. As noted above "about" is a little vague and contradicted by the clause that says "you can avoid most fees mine assesses". I suspect "your" HOA charges "transfer fees" and virtually any other junk fee created the last couple of decades on top of the fees you described.

As far as late fees are concerned, if "your" HOA has a management company, those late fees are going to the management company for not collecting - not to the HOA corporation.

[Don in Austin]

Yet another reason I would never buy where there is a HOA.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by Bo

If it's paid at the closing, once the closing's over, the seller isn't a member anymore.

About the only fees my HOA charges members are late fees. Pay your dues on time and you can avoid most fees mine assesses.

Talk to your management company. These doc prep fees came out of the woodwork at every sale of a property with HOA for us. I have to pull records but 2015 was in the 400-500 range. Had me fuming.

[Aquitaine]

In Mueller you pay a quarter point on top of the doc fees to support the affordable housing initiative.

I expect IC_Delight to be moving here any day now.

[cully]

To clarify, when I said doesn't look like Texas laws say exactly what the max charge will be for this packet....Texas laws do say there can be a charge to assemble, copy and deliver the large number of items in such a packet. But Texas laws don't state a max amount allowed.

It is concerning, graygray, that you speak of "so called" HOA docs. And that you ask what is the HOA docs resale package or cost for. I can't tell for sure if you are the buyer or seller. In states I'm familiar with the seller, who is the owner, generally is expected to provide and pay for up-to-date documents which can be a sizable package including all the most recent financials, covenants, restrictions, bylaws, any lawsuits against them, etc. However, sometimes the seller's or buyer's realtor will pay or the buyer will pay and that is acceptable in states I'm familiar with.

But I get the feeling you're not familiar with HOAs, so you may be the buyer. If so, you need to educate yourself on all the issues involved, not just in obtaining your documents before settlement, but actually in the docs. You need to be concerned about reading them.

I don't like the big brother thing....the homeowners who have a board, can be fine. Then the board hires a manager who does or doesn't live in the community, can be okay. But then another layer of protection, a dispassionate company to manage the resale package for the manager...for me, depends on the size of the association. An entire city as an Association like Reston, Va... understandable. But for most, personally don't like it.

For one thing, there's the extra charge whether personally or as part of your monthly dues. For another, the lack of connection that I have heard of from some people where there's a problem that has to be worked out between the buyer, the seller, the board, the manager, and the package keeper with no true concern and lots of paperwork back and forth till it's past closing time.

About CondoCerts. As with most things, one pays for every layer added. So you pay for CondoCerts. Here's what they do: "CondoCerts provides reliable, round-the-clock online access to all HOA governing documents and critical project data for lenders, mortgage bankers, escrow officers, title companies, real estate agents and homeowners in need of information from MGM’s managed communities."

"CondoCerts... delivers the required documents and other requested data. CondoCerts has become the de facto standard for disseminating documents/data to meet the timely needs of the real estate community...lenders, title and escrow companies and real estate agents have signed up and are using CondoCerts nationwide today. "

How big is the association you're talking about? And is it an HOA of single family homes or is it a condo of single family/townhouses/apts?

[Glenn Ross]

I think $400 is a tad high, but the charge is normal and I always factor it into my buyers' closing costs unless we negotiated a different outcome in the contract. As a former HOA board member, I believe most of the charge is passed along to the HOA.

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by Glenn Ross

I think $400 is a tad high, but the charge is normal and I always factor it into my buyers' closing costs unless we negotiated a different outcome in the contract. As a former HOA board member, I believe most of the charge is passed along to the HOA.

NONE of the charge is passed through to the HOA corporation. Instead the HOA corporation authorizes the managing agent or the vendor to charge the homeowner directly, off-the-books of the HOA corporation. You have clueless or corrupt homeowners on the board "negotiating" with a sophisticated management company which is often aided by the HOA attorney. The HOA attorney and managing agent often belong to the same trade group. The HOA and its involuntary members are there for the fleecing by these vendors. A "charge" for a statement of amounts allegedly owed is hardly "normal" for any business. It's nothing but rent-seeking by HOA vendors who will leverage great loss to the homeowner in order to extract these junk fees. The HOA boards either cluelessly or intentionally aid these vendors in ripping off the involuntary members of the HOA corporation.

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by Aquitaine

In Mueller you pay a quarter point on top of the doc fees to support the affordable housing initiative.

I expect IC_Delight to be moving here any day now.

Fortunately for you there are probably (for now) plenty of next greater fools to purchase your Mueller resale.

Homeowners already pay fees and a managing agent already gets paid for bookkeeping and other services. Yet the following additional fees will be required prior to closing:

Statement of Account fee
Administrative Transfer Fee
Advance assessments: two months
Working Capital Contribution
Community Enhancement fee: 0.25% sales price

Resale certificates are on top of the fees above.

Of course these fees can be arbitrarily increased at any time. Mueller is under declarant control and will remain so until at least 2060. No doubt the assessments being paid are likewise used to support various rent-seeking vendors. Oh, and the "affordable housing initiative" also places a second lien on the "affordable homes", dictates what gain the homeowner will be permitted to realize upon sale, and has a first right of refusal. Homeowners are involuntary members of two different HOA corporations. If you look carefully at the "dispute resolution procedures", the HOAs can file suit against you in court but you are pretty much limited to off-the-record alternative dispute resolution processes such as mediation and arbitration for resolution unless the HOA boards otherwise consent. Good luck with that. The one-sided alternative dispute resolution process helps the marketing myth that you're all just one big happy "community" in Mueller because there are no (visible) disputes.

[woodinvilleguy]

I hate HOA's, personally I think they are more trouble than they are worth.

[Bo]

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

Nonsense and quit defending the practice. Is this how HOA board members such as yourself try to defend the indefensible?
I suppose by your logic you can market the false hype that HOAs preserve value for homeowners because all the homeowners that lost money when they sold weren't homeowners - therefore homeowners never lost money? Is this the logic you always use to hide the inconvenient truth about HOAs, the boards, and the HOA vendors?

Is there a question there or just more preening? I see 3 straw man premises and 3 dares to disagree with them.

Curiously you strayed from "about the only fees" to avoiding "most fees" yours assesses. So "about the only" is losing credibility.

Just like you ignored my statement about there being some legwork involved, so no one should expect the management company to assemble documents for free. At a closing, it seems like everyone involved in the transaction gets a fee. The HOA is a party to the transaction, so why shouldn't it get a fee?

I'm not sure how an HOA board could shop around for management to avoid those fees. When you sign up with a management company, you agree to its menu of fees. Having led a board that changed management companies recently, I do know of what I speak.

Being vehemently anti-HOA, you'd probably prefer the HOA board just fire the management company, go into hibernation and let the corporation die, but that's the opposite of good steward ship and a recipe for personal liability for the board members. If there's no management company paying the board liability policy, those hibernating board members are going to be facing a serious smackdown in the courts!

"Your" HOA is charging assessments. As noted above "about" is a little vague and contradicted by the clause that says "you can avoid most fees mine assesses". I suspect "your" HOA charges "transfer fees" and virtually any other junk fee created the last couple of decades on top of the fees you described.

As far as late fees are concerned, if "your" HOA has a management company, those late fees are going to the management company for not collecting - not to the HOA corporation.

I just don't pay my assessment late. Ever. And I recommend that all members of an HOA do the same. If a homeowner can't afford those fees, that homeowner can't afford to live in an HOA neighborhood and should move out of one, rather than not pay. Not paying is not a good option. It will bite you in the wallet.

An HOA is like a cooperative. Co-op members pay into the cooperative, so that it can do whatever it's supposed to do. When co-op members stop paying, they affect the organization's ability to do what it was chartered to do. Texas was never big in the cooperatives movement, so this concept is foreign to some Texans. Cooperatives aren't for everyone and HOAs aren't either. I get that.