Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well, Mt Koscisosko is tiny compared to Mountains basically anywhere else.
True
But in our defense, I don't think anyone has ever come to Australia for the skiing
Sun, Beaches, Deserts, Rain forests perhaps, but never the skiing. No place has everything
The Appalaichains are actually quite impressive themselves.
There's been many times driving through them where "my heart goes into my throat" from the visuals and the weird, winding interstate, often with a speed limit of 70-75 mph (115-124 km/h) which of course means big-rig truckers (road trains) want to go 80-85 mph (133-142km/h) downhill or even uphill sometimes!
Check out the Blue Ridge Parkway...
There are sections of the highway (Linn Cove Viaduct???) in North Carolina that are elevated above the mountains by 200 ft (60 m) and you cannot see ground on either side, like you are floating through the clouds and tree tops, mysteriously.
Also check out "Fancy Gap" between Virginia and North Carolina.
Sometimes you drive through tunnels under mountains,
where you know the trees on top should be 7-15 metres tall,
but they look like they are 2-3 millimetres tall; barely distiguishable as trees.
Again, extreme topographical variations impress me more than sheer elevation.
This is going over Berthoud Pass, elevation 12,490 ft. I need to go over it to get to Denver and if the weather is bad (which happens often) they close the Pass, adding 2 hours to my trip going around it.
Going through Winter Park approaching Berthoud Pass.
Do you know anything about Australia,
or were you just drawn to these threads because of my screenname?
Australian gasoline; often 20+% higher per litre than here in Canada. ($1.35/L in WA when it was $0.90/L here) BUT driving distances are FAR greater!!!
Where I live, most places I want to go are 15-30 minutes drive.
A tank of gas lasts me a week usually.
I also love the outdoors, but hating Canadian weather often keeps me home on my days off. (resulting in fuel savings )
In places like North Queensland, 2 hours is "close" to drive to.
I would expect to be driving at least twice as far in Australia,
so add to that the increased cost per litre
and I would expect to be spending easily triple on gasoline that I do here.
You're also forgetting that I already own what I need to live in Canada,
and to move to Australia I would have to either pay to relocate my possesions,
or buy new ones...
I am not the kind of person that replaces everything I own, every year!
Cost to eat out at restaurants are easily double...
As a single person with no dependents, I do not need to shop for children's clothes once or twice a year.
Most of my clothing is bought on sale in Canada or the USA, further increasing the price differences.
My clothing lasts as I'm not growing, so it's no problem holding out for "sales."
Just because Australian money is worth less, doesn't mean that I will automatically earn the equivalent in Canadian...
I could go on and on,
But explaining should be pointless if you've actually been reading other threads in the Australia/New Zealand forum
Sorry if you find I am making fun of you. It is just that your examples and metaphors are totally way out there and exaggerated.
For example, why do you expect that you will be driving "twice as far" in Australia? This depends on where you live. I think from some of your posts here you said you live in the suburbs of Toronto (York Region perhaps?). How far you will drive depends on where you choose to live in Australia. If you live in a similar area to York Region on the outskirts of Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Brisbane or Perth, everything you need will be 15-30 minutes away just as it is in the 905. If you are Sydney or Melbourne, you may end up driving less because the public transport system (trains) there is more extensive than it is in the Toronto area.
As for enjoying the outdoors, many Australian cities actually have beaches right close to the centre of town and in the suburbs.
If you want to go city-hopping it is true that distances can be longer: Sydney-Melbourne is about twice the distance that Toronto-Montreal is. On the other hand, I think you've said you've never even been to Montreal so I don't know how much travel outside your immediate living area you tend to do. Are you expecting to drive 800 or a 1000 km one way and back to another Australian state to sample its outdoors every single weekend? This I would find surprising.
And in most places in Canada, 2 hours is "close" to drive to as well! Do you consider driving from Aurora or Richmond Hill to Niagara Falls "close" or "far"?
In the developed world, Australia is mid-range as far as costs are concerned. Quite a bit more expensive compared to the U.S., more expensive than Canada, but a lot less expensive that almost anywhere in western Europe.
I know that lots of Aussies here complain about the high cost of living in their country and I can sympathize with them. But Canadians complain about how expensive things are as well. Even Americans complain about how much things cost in the States.
Though what people say here provides insight, it is not necessarily an accurate measure, and actual studies like the one I cited in a previous post are often better guides.
And yes, I do know Australia quite well. If you do end up going (and I hope you do - since it is a great place), you will find that most people live lives quite similar to ours.
Be aware that when you rent a property you have to provide your own fridge, washer and dryer. They don't come with the place, like in Canada. Not even if you buy a place. Only built-in stuff stays: aircon, cooktops, wall ovens. The exception would be a fully-furnished, self-contained type of rental, which would cost more per week.
Not all rental properties in Canada include appliances. It can vary from region to region.
And almost any property you buy in Canada will not include appliances, unless the selller/builder is offering them as an incentive/perk.
Sorry if you find I am making fun of you. It is just that your examples and metaphors are totally way out there and exaggerated.
For example, why do you expect that you will be driving "twice as far" in Australia? This depends on where you live. I think from some of your posts here you said you live in the suburbs of Toronto (York Region perhaps?). How far you will drive depends on where you choose to live in Australia. If you live in a similar area to York Region on the outskirts of Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Brisbane or Perth, everything you need will be 15-30 minutes away just as it is in the 905. If you are Sydney or Melbourne, you may end up driving less because the public transport system (trains) there is more extensive than it is in the Toronto area.
I live in the middle of a somewhat-urban area now, and I don't "expect" to live in one, in Australia.
(I'll live where ever is convenient for "work", not "amenities )
Australian cities are much lower density than Canadian cities. (or at least Southern Ontario)
I live in Mississauga, which doesn't feel crowded, yet it has a higher population density than Melbourne!
Only Syndey has a higher population density, and they are only about 10% denser than Mississauga.
The city of Toronto is about 4-5 times denser than Mississauga or Sydney...
which means one can expect longer distances to drive
All other "major" cities in Australia are at most half-as-dense as Mississauga,
and Perth is like 1/5th the density of Mississauga.
*I'm not just some "yobbo" (for lack of a better word, lol) seeing price differences and blowing them out-of-proportion!
Quote:
As for enjoying the outdoors, many Australian cities actually have beaches right close to the centre of town and in the suburbs.
There are plenty of reasons to still travel in Australia.
Examples:
-Waves are different every day, and can be better in other places.
-I would enjoy experiencing different national parks,
whereas in Canada I usually won't visit unless I'm going with someone else.
(as I expect the weather to disappoint, even in summer sometimes )
-Even Australia frequently experiences weather that I don't like... however "good weather" is often found a few hundred km's away.
-In Canada if it's lousy where I live, three-quarters of the time the rest of Canada is much worse
and the only places in Canada with better short-term weather are usually 1000+ km away.
Quote:
If you want to go city-hopping it is true that distances can be longer: Sydney-Melbourne is about twice the distance that Toronto-Montreal is. On the other hand, I think you've said you've never even been to Montreal so I don't know how much travel outside your immediate living area you tend to do. Are you expecting to drive 800 or a 1000 km one way and back to another Australian state to sample its outdoors every single weekend? This I would find surprising.
Not so much a fan of cities, though I might be tempted to do that in Australia as well, as certain cities lack what other cities have. (Mexican food and perogies in Adelaide, the best Water Park is on the Gold Coast, some cities might be better for live-theatre etc..)
Quote:
And in most places in Canada, 2 hours is "close" to drive to as well! Do you consider driving from Aurora or Richmond Hill to Niagara Falls "close" or "far"?
No way. Anywhere past Hamilton, Scarborough or Vaughn is "far" to me. (50+ km or 45+ minute drive = far)
Buffalo, NY is only "close", relative to the fact it's in another country.
Quote:
In the developed world, Australia is mid-range as far as costs are concerned. Quite a bit more expensive compared to the U.S., more expensive than Canada, but a lot less expensive that almost anywhere in western Europe.
If I was a rich world-traveller or a successful international-businessmam, maybe that would matter to me.
Last edited by ColdCanadian; 03-25-2010 at 10:30 AM..
I live in the middle of a somewhat-urban area now, and I don't "expect" to live in one, in Australia.
(I'll live where ever is convenient for "work", not "amenities )
Australian cities are much lower density than Canadian cities. (or at least Southern Ontario)
I live in Mississauga, which doesn't feel crowded, yet it has a higher population density than Melbourne!
Only Syndey has a higher population density, and they are only about 10% denser than Mississauga.
The city of Toronto is about 4-5 times denser than Mississauga or Sydney...
which means one can expect longer distances to drive
All other "major" cities in Australia are at most half-as-dense as Mississauga,
and Perth is like 1/5th the density of Mississauga.
You have to be careful in comparing "cities" because the definition of "Sydney" is different than the definition of "Toronto". In order for Sydney to be 4-5 times less dense than Toronto, you would have to compare all of Greater Sydney including the far-flung suburbs (what Australians mean when they refer to "Sydney") to just the 416 area code (the "City of Toronto).
The density figures for "Sydney" encompass a wide area stretching almost 60 km from the city centre. In order to make an accurate comparison to Toronto, you'd have to include everything in the 905 between Milton and Oshawa, and all the way up to Bradford.
All of which will bring the Toronto density figure way down, probably to levels comparable to Sydney.
I will grant you that Toronto is a bit more dense than Sydney. But the difference isn't that great.
Do a Google Earth or Streetview search and you will see that most of Sydney is not made up of homes on expansive lots.
Its postwar areas are similar in density to single-family home areas of Etobicoke and Don Mills, and the newer suburbs have lots of large houses shoehorned into smallish lots (at least relative to house size), just like you see in Markham, Mississauga, etc.
You have to be careful in comparing "cities" because the definition of "Sydney" is different than the definition of "Toronto". In order for Sydney to be 4-5 times less dense than Toronto, you would have to compare all of Greater Sydney including the far-flung suburbs (what Australians mean when they refer to "Sydney") to just the 416 area code (the "City of Toronto).
The density figures for "Sydney" encompass a wide area stretching almost 60 km from the city centre. In order to make an accurate comparison to Toronto, you'd have to include everything in the 905 between Milton and Oshawa, and all the way up to Bradford.
All of which will bring the Toronto density figure way down, probably to levels comparable to Sydney.
I will grant you that Toronto is a bit more dense than Sydney. But the difference isn't that great.
Do a Google Earth or Streetview search and you will see that most of Sydney is not made up of homes on expansive lots.
Its postwar areas are similar in density to single-family home areas of Etobicoke and Don Mills, and the newer suburbs have lots of large houses shoehorned into smallish lots (at least relative to house size), just like you see in Markham, Mississauga, etc.
How Australian cities compare with Toronto is irrelevant since I don't live there,
but considering Mississauga is at least twice as densely-populated as EVERY Australian city, bar MEL and SYD,
I think that is very relevant, and one could derive some good conclusions about driving distances
*Mississauga is low enough density to have a distinct "suburban" feel to it too, despite the population of 780,000+.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
