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Surely, you recognize that when the regulations end, the car manufacturers will stop pushing the development of more efficient engines in order to reduce costs. The market (consumers) can be manipulated into taking their eyes off of efficiency and MPGs. Don't play politics with your common sense.
Car manufacturers will continue to direct R&D resources toward improving fuel economy with or without government mandates because there will always be consumers like you who prioritize fuel efficiency over all else. What they WON'T do is WASTE resources chasing after an arbitrarily established fleet-wide fuel economy standard that drives up the cost of a vehicle by thousands of dollars while people foolishly think they're actually saving money.
Companies selling work trucks for example can't do that forever. My dad had a Dodge diesel, I think it was a 2008 or so, and it said not for sale or use in California on it. But they updated their emissions systems within a year or 2 to meet the new California requirements. California just has such a large economy, it's hard to ignore.
It is hard to ignore however it's harder to ignore the much larger block of consumers outside of CA. Ford, GM and Dodge all make trucks. If one them produces a 49 state truck that is functionally better and cost less than the California version they will all have follow suit.
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Most people want a clean and safe environment, let's just not destroy ourselves in the process and put us back 50 years and do even worse damage to the environment. The EPA gets a lot of hate, but for the most part they are and have been a positive effect on the US.
They have had a very positive effect in the past because there was a lot of things that needed to be changed but we are at the point where the law of diminishing returns is kicking in. In this case even the law of physics is kicking in, if I'm towing something heavy you need a heavy vehicle. It doesn't matter if I have the greatest brakes and the greatest suspension in the world if what I'm towing can push me around like a rag doll.
But... at the same time... Trump also wants to change the trade agreements, which might mean higher prices. For example, Ford is keeping its Lincoln plant in Nebraska rather than move it to Mexico, apparently because of Trump's threats. Result: higher cost basis for Lincolns = higher prices. There's no getting around that.
I'd agree but those people keep their good jobs being able to afford the cars they are producing. Moving production out of the country may short term economic benefits for many people but ultimately it's a race to the bottom.
I hate to hear we are going back in time on cleaning up the environment. We have made great strides in air quality from these regulations. They have been fought every step of the way by conservatives who would make more money in the stock market without added expenses on the companies.
Thank goodness Los Angeles air has made a big turnaround in air quality over the years, or it would be like China by now.
Don't fool yourself into thinking emissions controls will magically disappear or that Al Gore doesn't have petroleum stocks. My F150 runs cleaner than a three cylinder Geo Metro--it's ULEV rated. I'm fine with that.
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Originally Posted by Coldjensens
The car makers have already compromised safety and quality in the efforts to meet the standards. they also play games (cheat) because the standards are not achievable.
Which is why I kind of applaud VW for trying what they did...
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Originally Posted by bpollen
I don't see why anyone would have a problem with mileage requirements. One reason we don't all have respiratory issues that is so common in some other countries is because we did some basic things. The U S is anything but aggressive in this area, compared to some other countries.
Not necessarily. Those smaller engines still run dirtier on lower quality fuel. US diesel is even better now.
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Originally Posted by Pruzhany
Just bring in the diesel versions and they won't have to be so tiny. I have a Isuzu Dmax 4x4 that has a 3L diesel engine and it gets over 30mpg. It's sister vehicle the Chevy Colorado using gasoline and using it's smallest engine barely comes close.
See above. That diesel won't meet US emissions or it would be here.
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Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
But... at the same time... Trump also wants to change the trade agreements, which might mean higher prices. For example, Ford is keeping its Lincoln plant in Nebraska rather than move it to Mexico, apparently because of Trump's threats. Result: higher cost basis for Lincolns = higher prices. There's no getting around that.
Now Trump is pro-energy, so he may be able to roll back some of the rules and regs keeping oil/gas companies from fracking, from exporting, and from building pipelines. Eventually, this should result in two things: lower energy prices for Americans, and better balance of trade. That will probably mean generally lower cost of living, higher wages, more money for infrastructure projects, etc. But we may undergo a recession before the good stuff comes.
Keeping production here doesn't have to mean higher prices. An unlocked iphone costs a very small fraction of its $650 market price to manufacture. You can blame stockholders for not thinking $40B profit on theoretically US made iphones for not being enough.
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Originally Posted by GraniteStater
Wrong decision, technology and efficiency free up investments for more productivity in the overall economy. Trump has no clue.
I'll trust him and his biz acumen...
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Originally Posted by Pruzhany
NYC did it as 5 cents per gallon a few decades ago and it made no difference. The deplorable city streets still exist.
IOW, the gubmint still found ways to waste more money...
Location: In a rural place where people can't bother me ;)
516 posts, read 430,968 times
Reputation: 1009
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Originally Posted by charlygal
OP, who cares about hauling cattle? People are driving to work and taking the kids to school. Oil and gas prices are a wildcard. MPGs equate to real dollars in my pocket. We all know auto makers won't make these changes unless required.
Can you ask a dumber question? Let me guess, your vegan so it doesn't matter huh......
I'd agree but those people keep their good jobs being able to afford the cars they are producing. Moving production out of the country may short term economic benefits for many people but ultimately it's a race to the bottom.
This is what I don't get...people chose this, IMO. When Walmarts started springing up, many people protested, saying too many jobs would be lost and too many small businesses would go under. But people mocked those protesters and screamed "we want our cheap Chinese crap!", so companies were forced to also move their manufacturing to China to compete. They straight out told Rubbermaid, which had a plant employing hundreds in Mass, that if they didn't go to China to make their products cheaper, that Walmart would stop carrying them, so they closed the plant and moved and everyone said "Yay, Rubbermaid is now $1.50 cheaper, yay, I can buy a 50" TV for $300!!!" and the people who lost their jobs then get min wage, no benefit jobs at Walmart.
Then people come on and blame it all on politicians, when we made these choices all on our own. You know what will happen when manufacturing jobs come back here? We will have some new $15 an hour jobs (the days of making $80,000 a year in a factory job are never coming back, the Unions are gone) and we'll be paying $500 for a 19" TV, just like before the jobs went to China.
35% tax on all Chinese goods? Just add 35% to your Walmart receipt total, because that's going to be the result.
Trump has announced plans to role back stricter regulations set in 2011 by the Obama administration which would have required auto makers to achieve an average of 54.5 mpg by 2025.
Factually incorrect. Here's the quote from the article you cite:
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“The Trump administration will complete a comprehensive review of all federal regulations. This includes a review of the fuel-economy and emissions standards to make sure they are not harming consumers or American workers,” said John Mashburn, a Trump senior policy adviser.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,531,346 times
Reputation: 12192
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Originally Posted by Bitey
Car manufacturers will continue to direct R&D resources toward improving fuel economy with or without government mandates because there will always be consumers like you who prioritize fuel efficiency over all else. What they WON'T do is WASTE resources chasing after an arbitrarily established fleet-wide fuel economy standard that drives up the cost of a vehicle by thousands of dollars while people foolishly think they're actually saving money.
That's pretty much what I think. Even if all fuel economy regs went away (that won't happen) companies still want to make the most efficient engines possible that don't compromise reliability and performance. Things like eliminating spare tires and experimenting with engines (like Ford's transmission problems) will hopefully not keep happening if the 2011 requirements are relaxed. I am fine with the govt having reasonable goals for fuel efficiency.
* Relax the standards
* Push for most trucks and long haul transportation to switch to natural gas
* Offer double/triple incentives to install solar in homes and buildings. Whatever incentive it takes.
* Start a long term tax that SLOWLY increases on gas. Lets say 5 cents now and increasing 2 cents a year. Eventually it will price gas out of the market but allow the US to get out of this deficit mess while also allowing us to get away from OPEC oil.
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