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There are self contained air systems for the passenger cabin crew. Simply sending the co-pilot out of the flight crew cabin doesn't accomplish much if the goal is to kill him and prevent him from trying to make communications attempts.
If the pilot had to means to force the co-pilot out of the cockpit, then there was also the means to kill him in all probability and avoid the possibility the co-pilot got an oxygen supply and began trying to make cell phone calls.
If the pilot created a ruse to have the co-pilot leave and then began to do something to de-pressurize the passenger cabin, that co-pilot was one person who would also know about the self contained oxygen equipment available. If some of the passenger cabin crew didn't get to their masks, then that left extra available for the co-pilot who would of all people, understand what the plane going to a higher altitude would feel like and understand the consequences. He'd be looking all over for every self contained oxygen bottle there was.
The pilot, not being able to see the co-pilot (remember, we're assuming the pilot got the co-pilot to leave the cockpit) would have no idea if the co-pilot was alive or dead. The plane didn't stay at 45k feet very long right?
As for being obsessed with airplanes and flight in general, you mean like most pilots? Their lives are centered around flying. Heck, we have people on this forum that are very involved in flight simulators and they aren't even pilots. Who isn't serious interested in what they do for a living and when it comes to pilots, doctors and a whole slew of other professions, those people are very into their jobs.
All pilots are indeed somewhat obsessed but not like this guy. All his peers said he was over the top. He spent all his days off and spare time in flight simulators.
I never said he "forced" him from the cockpit. He could have simply said something like, "why don't you go ahead and use the laboratory and when you come back take over for a while, so I can nap." He could have told him to go get something, anything. The new cockpit doors are too strong for anyone to force open. Remember the post 9-11 tests when they have two, 250 pound guys trying to break them down? They could not. And if the plane was decompressed, nobody would have a chance at breaking in that door.
As for oxygen in the back, again, people are commenting without proper knowledge. They have 6-9 minutes of time and experts say at 45,000 almost no time at all. When a plane decompresses, the pilots have a maximum of 9 minutes to decent to below 13,000 feet before the passengers will begin dying. At 45,000 feet everyone would be totally unconscious in 4 minutes. Those oxygen masks in the back are a joke, not like the pilots have in the front. Basically you might get enough to keep yourself alive for a few minutes until the pilot descends
Last edited by alaskaboy; 04-13-2014 at 02:46 AM..
How secure is the cockpit door? Is it possible to lock it or jam it so nobody can get in? I wonder if whoever is in the cockpit even cares whether folks on the other side of the door are alive or dead if they cannot get through the door anyway.
After 9/11, all US carriers switched over to a reinforced cockpit door. It really is very difficult to get into. There are ways to get through the door but the flight crews do have master control over whether or not you are allowed. I can't go into too much detail on how to get in, for obvious reasons, but short of a battering ram, you're not going to make much headway with something that fits in your carry-on.
Whether or not Malaysia Airlines ever made the switch (I would guess they did) is something I wouldn't know. Since the 777 is a widebody aircraft that could fly to the US, I can't imagine them failing to install one of those doors. I'm pretty sure that directive came from the Department of Homeland Security and/or TSA - not necessarily the FAA (although the FAA may have been the ones who provided the bylaws and guidance for it) which would probably mean any passenger jet flying in the US would have to have one - I think. I'm really not familiar with what foreign carriers are and aren't supposed to comply with when flying into or over US airspace, though. But, as an educated guess, I'd say it'd be very difficult for anyone to "break in" to the cockpit.
What is your point? The article talks about ETOPS....claims it isn't safe. And then the article talks about rapid decompression. ETOPs has proven it's self safe as can be. If we ever find out what happened here I don't think the answer will be, "well if that plane had two more engines on it this just wouldn't have happened" ETOPS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Regardless, two engines or sixteen engines...a rapid decompression isn't going to be cured by 16 jet engines. No amount of engines will pressurize a cabin with wide open outflow valves or a hole in the cabin.
They were concerned that 2 engines would not be enough to cross the ocean but something unexpected happened in 2 777's during test flight.
A simple valve broke.
This simple valve breaking caused the cabin to depressurize. The pilot got his oxygen mask on quickly, the others did not.
Those who did NOT went straight to the hospital in an ambulance.
If something like this happened on MH370, the pilot would have more oxygen then the passengers. Maybe enough to make it up and around the bend before heading south (if that even happened) or it gave him more time to punch in auto pilot instructions to get them away from land.
So instead of avoiding radar, he was flying low to provide oxygen in the plane.
There were witness reports of a plane flying very low.
As far as no call for help? Maybe he did but somebody was sleeping?
Or
The Japanese said they made contact but the voice was very muffled, maybe he couldn't talk?
Anyway, makes much more sense than blaming the pilot for this disaster.
But it's not like the movies where people line up one by one to get their butts kicked by the martial arts expert.
It's just that a black belt's body is a lethal weapon and the copilot is known to let passengers into the cockpit.
I have always wondered about having a terrorist with no gun but who is a black belt.
Just a question for any of you who might be sure of the answer, since I am not. I read that the climb to 45000 feet was detected by Malaysian military radar. So...did they provide that as proof; or did they just report it? As in "take our word for it"?
During all this speculative conversation, a comment a few posts back said "you are getting ahead of the facts". We have one fact. Just one fact. A plane is missing. That's it. Everything else is what has been reported to us....and frankly, if I had a loved one on that flight, I don't know if I would believe anything from anyone - - especially the Malaysian govt.
Just a question for any of you who might be sure of the answer, since I am not. I read that the climb to 45000 feet was detected by Malaysian military radar. So...did they provide that as proof; or did they just report it? As in "take our word for it"?
During all this speculative conversation, a comment a few posts back said "you are getting ahead of the facts". We have one fact. Just one fact. A plane is missing. That's it. Everything else is what has been reported to us....and frankly, if I had a loved one on that flight, I don't know if I would believe anything from anyone - - especially the Malaysian govt.
I don't know the validity of the climb in altitude as that tidbit of information was thrown into the speculation mill with everything else. Without data from the Flight Data Recorder, we can't tell for for sure whether the aircraft climbed to FL450 or not since there are many variables that could create an erroneous altitude reading from ground radar. The aircraft can still capably fly at that altitude, though a commercial flight would never climb that high.
And you are right, they only proven fact we have is that an aircraft is missing.
One thing that baffles me beyond comprehension is that when the black box and recorders are found, they are to be turned over to Malaysia. Are you kidding me? With the deceitful, unethical fashion they have handled this since minute one? I think a coalition of all countries involved be present from start to finish of the analysis of the recorders once found. If not, you can be 110% assured, Malaysia will spin the findings any way they see fit.
All pilots are indeed somewhat obsessed but not like this guy. All his peers said he was over the top. He spent all his days off and spare time in flight simulators.
I never said he "forced" him from the cockpit. He could have simply said something like, "why don't you go ahead and use the laboratory and when you come back take over for a while, so I can nap." He could have told him to go get something, anything. The new cockpit doors are too strong for anyone to force open. Remember the post 9-11 tests when they have two, 250 pound guys trying to break them down? They could not. And if the plane was decompressed, nobody would have a chance at breaking in that door.
As for oxygen in the back, again, people are commenting without proper knowledge. They have 6-9 minutes of time and experts say at 45,000 almost no time at all. When a plane decompresses, the pilots have a maximum of 9 minutes to decent to below 13,000 feet before the passengers will begin dying. At 45,000 feet everyone would be totally unconscious in 4 minutes. Those oxygen masks in the back are a joke, not like the pilots have in the front. Basically you might get enough to keep yourself alive for a few minutes until the pilot descends
The passenger cabin crew have different options for oxygen than the passengers. That is what I was referring to. They have more than the few minutes of oxygen because they are responsible for checking on the passengers and performing other functions in emergencies. They have bottled oxygen and have the ability to regulate their own oxygen flow. This information comes from Skybrary but there is no reason to discount it.
There has been a lot of talk about disabling the passengers through a climb to high altitude and waiting for their oxygen to run out, but remember, the flight crew isn't using the same oxygen system.
That 777 was filled with just a pilot, co-pilot and passengers. There was also a compliment of passenger service crew members and they are trained to react in emergencies, not sit in their seats and pass out.
As for being obsessed, as I said, right on this forum we have people who use flight simulators daily and when you read their posts, you'd think they had flown into all numbers of airports, they claim to have done so. Only when asked directly do you find out they have never flown a plane, only a simulator. They are enthusiasts for sure but hardly obsessed.
While I've never flown a plane other than to handle the controls for a time while a friend of mine was piloting I can see how piloting becomes a very passionate experience. I don't think anyone can fly commercial jets like the 777 and not have being a pilot consumer a large part of your life.
Since the plane disappeared, there has been a very active effort to blame the pilot. Why? I think it is because there is no evidence of any kind other than fragments no one can really say are definitive in explaining what happened.
The pilot is dead, blaming dead people is often a very convenient thing to do, especially if others are responsible or have a lot of liability riding on the results.
The passenger cabin crew have different options for oxygen than the passengers. That is what I was referring to. They have more than the few minutes of oxygen because they are responsible for checking on the passengers and performing other functions in emergencies.
That 777 was filled with just a pilot, co-pilot and passengers. There was also a compliment of passenger service crew members and they are trained to react in emergencies, not sit in their seats and pass out.
How very true. Unfortunately, a lot of people still think of them as flying waiters and waitresses.
One thing that baffles me beyond comprehension is that when the black box and recorders are found, they are to be turned over to Malaysia. Are you kidding me? With the deceitful, unethical fashion they have handled this since minute one? I think a coalition of all countries involved be present from start to finish of the analysis of the recorders once found. If not, you can be 110% assured, Malaysia will spin the findings any way they see fit.
It is what it is. If the Malaysians need more sophisticated equipment to extract data from the data recorders, they can ask for our help. Otherwise, it is none of our business.
The Malaysians altering the recorder data or disseminating false information to lay blame on a different party should be a real concern. It has happened before.
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