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Green is an pretty good defender, not elite, and a career 7pt/game scorer. Not very good for a guy who has had the minutes he has.
Jimmer as good a shooter as anyone in the NBA, but agree on the defense.
As far as the China league, its better than you think, and if you count the NCAA as better, Jimmer averaged 29 there as well.
If you don't think Green is an elite defender, you are not watching enough San Antonio games. He is routinely assigned top perimeter players on opposing teams and does a great job of slowing them down.
If you don't think Green is an elite defender, you are not watching enough San Antonio games. He is routinely assigned top perimeter players on opposing teams and does a great job of slowing them down.
danny is also not asked to score, but has shown he can. is he a great shooter? nope, but he is a pretty decent shooter, and can hit the 3 at a higher % than jimmer.
he is solely asked to hit a couple of 3s, and defend the best guy kawhi isnt defensing on the perimeter. thats his job, hes very good at his job.
slo cant watch spurs games, his head might explode from all the hate.
danny is also not asked to score, but has shown he can. is he a great shooter? nope, but he is a pretty decent shooter, and can hit the 3 at a higher % than jimmer.
he is solely asked to hit a couple of 3s, and defend the best guy kawhi isnt defensing on the perimeter. thats his job, hes very good at his job.
slo cant watch spurs games, his head might explode from all the hate.
Kawhi has said Jimmer is the best shooter he has played with. So there's that.
Kawhi has said Jimmer is the best shooter he has played with. So there's that.
you never talk up your good friend? tried to make his sound good?
i also find that hard to believe because kawhi doesnt talk. not to the media, not to anyone. hell pop even joked that he didnt even know what kawhis voice sounded like until his 3rd season.
The Kings duped themselves into thinking a college Cinderella could be a useful NBA player.
Teams dupe themselves all the time. Sometimes a player can have EVERYTHING including the reach, height, vertical, speed, etc and still turn out to be a bust. Other times a player could be lacking in these areas, slip in the draft and turn out to be good. The bottom line is that you had 25 or so teams with highly paid people to evaluate talent and NONE of them were letting Jimmer slip past the first round. I didn't see a single mock draft with Jimmer going outside the top 15.
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Do you know what the difference (on offense) is between Jimmer & Steph/JJ? Steph & JJ can get & make shots at the NBA level. Reddick is elite at coming offscreens and taking spot up shots. Steph is an elite ball handler with the quickest release the NBA has ever seen and can shoot from range off the dribble better than any player in the 3 Pt era.
Jimmer is not on their planets.
Did you even watch Jimmer play in college? You act as though NBA teams had absolutely no reason to think Jimmer, a national player of the year could shoot at the pro level. Hype may have played into Jimmer going a few picks higher, but he was going in the first round regardless of hype. Like I said, some people start thinking they are elite talent scouts while using the magic of hindsight.
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That Vesely is an even bigger bust doesn't change the fact that Jimmer is a bust, too. At least Derrick Williams is still in the NBA. Most players in the draft are not NBA ready, especially the top draft picks. Teams (especially at the top of the draft) are looking for potential. Lonzo Ball is going to need some time before he becomes a plus player in the NBA, but he has a high ceiling.
That's not quite true anymore. Now that players are forced to play in college a year, it takes a lot of the guess work out things (compared to say the HS to pro era). For example, take a player like Skal Labissiere - ESPN had him #2 in the class of 2015 yet after a little time in college he's barely a 1st rounder. Of course, players aren't at their peak in year 1, but top 6-7 picks typically have a ~80% chance of contributing right away. They are the closest thing to sure bet in the draft. Derrick Williams still being in the NBA means NOTHING. He did nothing for Minnesota - the team that drafted him. As a #2 pick he is one of the bigger bust of the last 10 years (despite looking like a man-child against Duke in the tourney).
Teams dupe themselves all the time. Sometimes a player can have EVERYTHING including the reach, height, vertical, speed, etc and still turn out to be a bust. Other times a player could be lacking in these areas, slip in the draft and turn out to be good. The bottom line is that you had 25 or so teams with highly paid people to evaluate talent and NONE of them were letting Jimmer slip past the first round. I didn't see a single mock draft with Jimmer going outside the top 15.
Did you even watch Jimmer play in college? You act as though NBA teams had absolutely no reason to think Jimmer, a national player of the year could shoot at the pro level. Hype may have played into Jimmer going a few picks higher, but he was going in the first round regardless of hype. Like I said, some people start thinking they are elite talent scouts while using the magic of hindsight.
That's not quite true anymore. Now that players are forced to play in college a year, it takes a lot of the guess work out things (compared to say the HS to pro era). For example, take a player like Skal Labissiere - ESPN had him #2 in the class of 2015 yet after a little time in college he's barely a 1st rounder. Of course, players aren't at their peak in year 1, but top 6-7 picks typically have a ~80% chance of contributing right away. They are the closest thing to sure bet in the draft. Derrick Williams still being in the NBA means NOTHING. He did nothing for Minnesota - the team that drafted him. As a #2 pick he is one of the bigger bust of the last 10 years (despite looking like a man-child against Duke in the tourney).
I don't know that he was destined for a top 15 draft, if not for the Kings. If the Kings don't pick him, who does? NBA teams are not big on undersized 2 Guards. Jimmer was hyped by media, but the media doesn't do a lot of scouting and drafting. The Kings are a hopeless franchise, and it's not surprising that they made a bad decision. We know they are not the only awful front office (here's looking at the Knicks), but plenty of college stars don't get much interest from NBA teams.
Look at Shelvin Mack in the same draft: led Butler on a run to the National Championship game, then was drafted in the 2nd round.
The Draft is full of guesswork, but it's not magic either. Teams are looking for potential. It is rare for players to make any effective contribution their rookie season. High picks will get playing time, but not in hopes of contribution--in hopes of development. Kyrie Irving had precious little track record at the college level, but the potential was obvious in his athleticism and ball handling.
Jimmer had track record at the college level, but the huge question marks were obvious: he didn't have the athleticism & ball handling to get past NBA defenders. He could shoot, but how could he get his shot off? I thought during the national hype that the expectation that he would be an NBA starter was crazy. I thought the hype was crazy because I was watching what it took for Steph Curry to get his shot against NBA defenders. And it was an awful lot more than I ever saw from Jimmer.
I don't know that he was destined for a top 15 draft, if not for the Kings. If the Kings don't pick him, who does? NBA teams are not big on undersized 2 Guards. Jimmer was hyped by media, but the media doesn't do a lot of scouting and drafting. The Kings are a hopeless franchise, and it's not surprising that they made a bad decision. We know they are not the only awful front office (here's looking at the Knicks), but plenty of college stars don't get much interest from NBA teams.
Look at Shelvin Mack in the same draft: led Butler on a run to the National Championship game, then was drafted in the 2nd round.
The Draft is full of guesswork, but it's not magic either. Teams are looking for potential. It is rare for players to make any effective contribution their rookie season. High picks will get playing time, but not in hopes of contribution--in hopes of development. Kyrie Irving had precious little track record at the college level, but the potential was obvious in his athleticism and ball handling.
Jimmer had track record at the college level, but the huge question marks were obvious: he didn't have the athleticism & ball handling to get past NBA defenders. He could shoot, but how could he get his shot off? I thought during the national hype that the expectation that he would be an NBA starter was crazy. I thought the hype was crazy because I was watching what it took for Steph Curry to get his shot against NBA defenders. And it was an awful lot more than I ever saw from Jimmer.
Like I mentioned, every mock draft had Jimmer in the first round. I doubt hype alone took him from undraftable to a first round pick. BTW - the same Kings franchise picked up a guy as the last pick in the same draft...Isaiah Thomas.
And yes, by contribute I'm talking about getting minutes and at least looking like a serviceable NBA player (on what is typically a bad team)...perhaps even flashes or sustained periods of good play. Most top 6-7 picks can get you that and within a year or two while maintaining market value (from 2016: Towns, Russell, Okafor, Porzingis, Cauley-Stein).
Like I mentioned, every mock draft had Jimmer in the first round. I doubt hype alone took him from undraftable to a first round pick. BTW - the same Kings franchise picked up a guy as the last pick in the same draft...Isaiah Thomas.
And yes, by contribute I'm talking about getting minutes and at least looking like a serviceable NBA player (on what is typically a bad team)...perhaps even flashes or sustained periods of good play. Most top 6-7 picks can get you that and within a year or two while maintaining market value (from 2016: Towns, Russell, Okafor, Porzingis, Cauley-Stein).
Mock drafts are by media. The Kings are definitely a hopeless franchise--evidenced by trading away the NBA's best Center for a handful of beans, firing the good coach who worked well with that center because the Center got injured and the crappy team was crappy, and dubious drafting under their new ownership group (and before).
Year 2 is very different from year 1 for NBA rookies. It is very rare for a rookie to contribute more than potential in year 1. Some players will figure it out in year 2, but others take longer. From your 2015 draft list, Towns & Porzingis are real contributors. The others are still just potential.
And the 2016 draft is more instructive for rookie years: who in that draft class has contributed more than potential? Thon Maker & Brogdon (way to go Milwaukee) have probably done the most.
Lets all take a Jimmer break and watch Kawhi try to guard him!?
did you even watch the video? i watched it, counted every time kawhi was on jimmer. all 5 plays.
the result, jimmer passed 4 times, and drove once, running into kawhi's teammate drawing a foul on him.
side note, here is the pre-draft "weakness" portion of the scouting report on kawhi.
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Weaknesses: Does not have one aspect offensively that stands out or which allows him to consistently score the ball … With his size and frame, will almost certainly be a perimeter player at the next level, but he lacks the polish and skill necessary to consistently operate on the wing … He does not have break down ability off the dribble and he is especially shaky handling the ball with his left hand … His jumpshot (while definitely improved) is still very inconsistent … The release comes high off his head and it is somewhat of a sling motion, which results in a fairly flat shot that goes all over the place … At this level, he has a size advantage on almost a nightly basis, but he still chooses to take the majority of his shots from the outside … Takes a high number of off balance shots, but does not show the ability to convert them at a good percentage … He does not have a great touch around the basket, and unless he can get inside position on the defense, he struggles finishing when contested … Not very disciplined defensively, he gambles far too often and leaves his team susceptible to giving up easy baskets …
especially notice the last line.
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