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You missed the point entirely!!! I could have posted athletic records to make the same point, but chose not to because I suspect you refuse to see the bigger picture. Runners, jumpers, swimmers e.t.c, today compete in the same contests but their times are much better and continue to improve.
Your question regarding MJ's numbers compared to today's players and those in Mikan's era ignores the fact that the court hasn't gotten bigger but the players have, and the length of the game hasn't increased but the ability of the athletes to perform at top speed (speed, strength and stamina) and the introduction of the 24 second clock have made a difference.
Change those factors or lower the 24 second clock to give teams more possessions and see what happens to individual scoring, and you'll see a big difference, but it would then bring up the same argument you have now. They have more room to create and do the things that others before them didn't have.
You claim defenses are weaker, but according to those that play the game it is harder now and the shooting isn't anywhere near what it used to be.
And your focus is on a particular player so I'll address that one as well. No matter what, you can't ignore the fact Mikan, as 'un-athletic' as you claim he was, won seven championships and three scoring titles, not to mention rebounding and shot-blocking. This from a guy that was near-sighted too!!! It wasn't today's NBA, but it wasn't the rec league either. He worked at his craft, and his peers, no matter the era or generation, voted him one of the NBA's 50 Greatest Players.
The players today have the benefit of much more than he and his generation had. If the roles were reversed the argument wouldn't be any less valid.
I give them all their due, for performances that at the time are/were considered worthy of greatness, but I can't go so far as to claim that one is greater/better than the other. If your point is Hakeem was the best center of his generation, no doubt, I agree, beyond that, fruitless debate.
The game will evolve some more, and some of the ideas I've posted will come, one way or another. You will be having the same argument with young 'uns that think their generation of players have no equals.
1. i completely dismiss any athletic "records" from that era as i have no respect for or consider those "accomplishments" legitimate because of the talentless scrubs that played in that time. George Mikan would be a carpenter today.
2. the only era with real legitimate ATHLETES that i can ever consider are late 70s/early 80s to now. george mikan, bob cousy, all these 1950s players couldn't play in today's league. Dr J, Magic, Bird could all play today and would excel. why? because they were either highly skilled, highly athletic or both. george mikan was neither. he had 1 move, a sky hook, and nobody played any defense.
its the same thing with babe ruth. the fact that 1 player could out-homer entire teams is proof enough of how garbage players were back then. he was playing against plumbers and construction workers. when the season ended, they went home and got fat all winter.
3. as far as "runners and jumpers" there isnt any difference in runners and jumpers now and 100 years ago other than training and sports fitness. running now is the same as it was 1000 years ago
basketball now and what it was 50 years ago is completely different. unless you see jesse owens running differently than michael johnson or hussain bolt... its the same thing. the way magic and hakeem played basketball is completely different than how mikan or any of the other scrubs in that era played.
You guys can go on forever and it will never end. Anyway, so back to the topic. If you guys have time, you should watch this classic(in 14 parts). Akeem's greatness on display despite being in the league for only 3 yrs. A memorable, but forgotten great playoff game over the years. Akeem had 49pts, 24 rebounds, 6 blocks and many altered ones.
In other words the objective of the game is now no longer to dribble, pass and to put the ball in the basket using the hands?
You're entitled to the dismissive opinion but it won't change the FACTS.
har har har
unless you can find me clips of any players in those all-white teams doing the following:
cross over dribbles
fade-away jumpers
tomahawk, 360, or any kind of dunking
behind the back passing or dribbling
reverse lay ups
etc
then you will disprove my claim. otherwise you're getting off on nitpicking and refusing to accept that the style of play, the moves, and thus the game of basketball that they played in the 50s is completely different than the one played in 1990, 2000 and now.
because george mikan could do the dream shake right? lol.
Guess you forgot that Shaq coud not do anything to stop Hakeem in 95 Finals
no. i recall that series. i know that shaq was very young in his career and carried that team to the finals. he hadn't come into his own yet. kareem was at the peak of his career. shaqs played in the finals for 3 different teams. hes won an abundance of championships. his career statistics are absolutely outrageous. shaq is easily top 3 best centers of all time. probably top 5 best players of all time. maybe i should say most dominant instead of best. that implies that his skill level was far superior. he's possibly the best center of all time. definately better than kareem.
no. i recall that series. i know that shaq was very young in his career and carried that team to the finals. he hadn't come into his own yet. kareem was at the peak of his career. shaqs played in the finals for 3 different teams. hes won an abundance of championships. his career statistics are absolutely outrageous. shaq is easily top 3 best centers of all time. probably top 5 best players of all time. maybe i should say most dominant instead of best. that implies that his skill level was far superior. he's possibly the best center of all time. definately better than kareem.
You mean Hakeem, and I disagree.
Simply on the basis of athletic versatility, I'll take the Dream - and I've watched both of their entire careers.
When we say GOAT, i think you have to take both their offensive and defensive prowess as well as their skills. I wish there was a stat for efficiency or something like that which combines defense/offense and versatility of a center. Would like to see some numbers on that. I am willing to bet Hakeem would be in the top 3, if not, maybe #1.
shaq could've been the goat but he got fat and lazy... and his ft shooting made him a liability in late game situations hence hack a shaq.
what weakness did hakeem have.. he was solid defensively and a beast offensively.
dream shake >
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