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Whenever I see comments like this, I think of the idiots that ignore the mountains of evidence that show publicly financed stadiums are not good investments for the cities in which they are built. Total lack of comprehension.
I think of the idiot, cherry-picked economists on some website who are not looking at the hospitality taxes collected when the facility brings in events such as concerts, sporting events, and works in tandem with a rebuilt civic center next door to create a comprehensive entertainment complex. $90 million over 30 years even before being offset by increased tax collections is hardly a stretch for the city.
Another important distinction is that the Protective field downtown is not some palatial facility being built at the behest of any professional team. Instead, it will support UAB, which pumps untold billions into the local economy. I'm really trying to figure out how this is a bad deal for the metro area.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 02-14-2020 at 11:57 AM..
Does anyone even know the specifics of Protective Stadium?? Like will it have the skinny wrap around video/message boards of some sort like Bryant Denny? LED lighting? Accent lighting outside the stadium like Region Fields has on the "Birmingham" sign outside of it?
I think of the idiot, cherry-picked economists on some website who are not looking at the hospitality taxes collected when the facility brings in events such as concerts, sporting events, and works in tandem with a rebuilt civic center next door to create a comprehensive entertainment complex. $90 million over 30 years even before being offset by increased tax collections is hardly a stretch for the city.
Another important distinction is that the Protective field downtown is not some palatial facility being built at the behest of any professional team. Instead, it will support UAB, which pumps untold billions into the local economy. I'm really trying to figure out how this is a bad deal for the metro area.
Yep, every deal is different. This wasn't built to entice a team, who will use it for 20 years and leave. Not to mention it's in a downtown entertainment area, like you said. There is also the B'ham Bowl. That, the HBCU games and UAB alone make it worth it.
How can this be a bad thing? In steveklein's article, the 'Key Facts' all point to relationships with professional sports franchises. That is not the case here.
Does anyone even know the specifics of Protective Stadium?? Like will it have the skinny wrap around video/message boards of some sort like Bryant Denny? LED lighting? Accent lighting outside the stadium like Region Fields has on the "Birmingham" sign outside of it?
Yep, every deal is different. This wasn't built to entice a team, who will use it for 20 years and leave. Not to mention it's in a downtown entertainment area, like you said. There is also the B'ham Bowl. That, the HBCU games and UAB alone make it worth it.
How can this be a bad thing? In steveklein's article, the 'Key Facts' all point to relationships with professional sports franchises. That is not the case here.
You are asking why not having a tenant that foots a lot of the bill be a bad thing? Really?
If you guys think that a couple HBCU games and a handful of UAB home games alone make this investment work, you are kidding yourselves.
I'm not saying Birmingham is New York and that Protective Life is going to be Madison Square Garden...
...but for this stadium and BJCC renovation to be "worth it" you will need a LOT more new events held there (like many dozens if not hundreds annually, not 2 or 3 and some football games that are already played locally) and a LOT more patrons (more like 2 million annually, not 200,000).
And sure... you guys can keep looking for reasons why all these dozens of other examples don't apply here because they aren't the exact same situation... but it's the same story over and over again:
- City claims new facility will be a huge boon to the economy.
- Taxpayers fund the stadium.
- Benefit to the local economy is muted relative to what was advertised by the local chamber of commerce/business alliance/etc.
But sure... you guys are probably right. This stadium won't overrun cost projections and will provide all the benefit that is being claimed. Because Birmingham is different.
You are asking why not having a tenant that foots a lot of the bill be a bad thing? Really?
If you guys think that a couple HBCU games and a handful of UAB home games alone make this investment work, you are kidding yourselves.
I'm not saying Birmingham is New York and that Protective Life is going to be Madison Square Garden...
...but for this stadium and BJCC renovation to be "worth it" you will need a LOT more new events held there (like many dozens if not hundreds annually, not 2 or 3 and some football games that are already played locally) and a LOT more patrons (more like 2 million annually, not 200,000).
And sure... you guys can keep looking for reasons why all these dozens of other examples don't apply here because they aren't the exact same situation... but it's the same story over and over again:
- City claims new facility will be a huge boon to the economy.
- Taxpayers fund the stadium.
- Benefit to the local economy is muted relative to what was advertised by the local chamber of commerce/business alliance/etc.
But sure... you guys are probably right. This stadium won't overrun cost projections and will provide all the benefit that is being claimed. Because Birmingham is different.
lol?
I might agree with you if the City was footing the entire bill, but they are footing a very small % of it. It will not take all of the things you claimed for the City's investment to payoff. If it is truly such a terrible endeavor, then it is just a bad investment for the BJCC and that does not impact the City nearly as much as you are trying to claim.
It's not about "if you think this investment is going to work out". It's about the city now having a great resume to bring to the table that can compete with others for events. When promoters for music concerts, conventions, sports, festivals, etc. look for cities with nice amenties for visitors, they won't look pass birmingham resume no more. This isn't about something not paying for itself. It's about bringing visitors and their dollars to the city for as many days as possible throughout the year. Right now the bjcc host hundred of events every year. Just imagine a updated facility and a new stadium with even more space to host events.
You are asking why not having a tenant that foots a lot of the bill be a bad thing? Really?
If you guys think that a couple HBCU games and a handful of UAB home games alone make this investment work, you are kidding yourselves.
I'm not saying Birmingham is New York and that Protective Life is going to be Madison Square Garden...
...but for this stadium and BJCC renovation to be "worth it" you will need a LOT more new events held there (like many dozens if not hundreds annually, not 2 or 3 and some football games that are already played locally) and a LOT more patrons (more like 2 million annually, not 200,000).
And sure... you guys can keep looking for reasons why all these dozens of other examples don't apply here because they aren't the exact same situation... but it's the same story over and over again:
- City claims new facility will be a huge boon to the economy.
- Taxpayers fund the stadium.
- Benefit to the local economy is muted relative to what was advertised by the local chamber of commerce/business alliance/etc.
But sure... you guys are probably right. This stadium won't overrun cost projections and will provide all the benefit that is being claimed. Because Birmingham is different.
lol?
Birmingham's bite is $3 million a year. Three million. Throw in lodging tax, car rental tax, sales taxes for restaurants and, yeah, and I will bet it will even out. Even if it falls short in the first few years, the difference is likely to be chicken feed. Over time, however, I guarantee you that the city will be way in the black on this deal. Three million a year (Before the increase in hospitality and sales taxes) is a freaking bargain compared to what we'll get out of it.
Just the Birmingham Bowl alone has, on average, a roughly $11.6 million economic impact on the area each year. And that's for a crappy bowl in a dilapidated stadium in a bad part of town. Put it in a new stadium in the middle of downtown and an entertainment district, and I'm pretty certain that number shoots up. The Magic City Classic had a $24.3 million economic impact last year. Add the aforementioned HBCU game to the mix, and I bet you see similar numbers.
I mean, holy smokes, the AHSAA championships left the Birmingham market because Legion Field had become such a terrible venue Now, because we're building a new stadium, it's coming back. Last year's attendance in Auburn? 51,000. Put that same event in Birmingham, I bet it draws 60,000. Why? Because in Birmingham there are actually places to stay, things to do, and places to eat. So between the Tuskeegee/Moorhead game and the AHSAA, that right there is a substantial uptick that we would have never seen had we never broken ground.
Bring in minor league soccer (Plenty of speculation about that), World Cup qualifying matches (We've hosted those), musical events that could no longer be held out at Legion Field, conventions that require an outdoor space, and a host of other things, and it is a facility that will most certainly get used far beyond what you describe. And that doesn't even include UAB football games. Right now, UAB attendance isn't all that hot. Put the games downtown and you're looking at a completely different level of interest.
Hell's bells, I am at this very moment beginning to work with a national musical organization in order to bring one of its regional events to Birmingham. These typically draw 18-20,000 people. When I approached them in the past, this organization wouldn't come to Legion Field on a bet. When I started talking about this gleaming new downtown facility, suddenly they're very open to the possibility. And they will draw spectators from all over the region, staying in hotel rooms and eating in restaurants. Now multiply that by any number of other events, and you're suddenly talking about a facility that gets used year-round in a variety of ways.
What's more, with the stadium and the surrounding redeveloped area the city has a public space for sporting events, one that continues to accelerate Birmingham's renaissance. I mean, what's the ROI for Railroad Park? Or Regions Field? Combined, those two projects cost the City of Birmingham roughly $60 million. Yet those have been of incalculable value to the region, far in excess of what they cost. Did you trot out your calculator and complain when those were being built as well?
Or, hey, we can just go back to the unimaginative way of thinking that you seem to prefer--you know the shortsighted mindset that used to predominate in this city. Instead of actually putting up a facility that can achieve marketing synergy with our existing Convention Center, let's just throw some more Band Aids and bailing wire to prop up Legion Field, a facility so antiquated and rundown that no one, and I mean no one, wants to go there--either as a spectator or as an athlete or as a performer.
Look, I get it. For whatever reason, you really, really need to be the devil's advocate here, the guy who loves to make facile, knowing comments. But this is a facility this city has desperately needed for a long, long time to spur visitors, give our convention center a boost, and generally improve the civic life of the community. What's more with the tiny debt service on the facility by the city of Birmingham, the finances simply don't match up with whatever gaudy NFL palaces are described in that web site you quoted. It's a lazy apples-to-oranges comparison, because those stadiums were not only far more expensive that what this stadium will be, but they also were replacements for largely serviceable stadiums that still had plenty of shelf life to them. It is an absolutely absurd comparison.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 02-14-2020 at 05:31 PM..
The Tuskegee-Morehouse Classic could be relocated to Birmingham! If it happens, the city of Birmingham needs to nurture, support, and grow this classic to attendance numbers that rival the Magic City Classic. Maybe Birmingham can become known as HBCU classic capitol!
This is awesome news! I think you are on to something here. The Labor Day Classic albeit sporadic, The grandadday of them all the Magic City Classic and now potentially Tuskegee and Morehouse too ?! That will be a very good and active weekend in the city for sure, Bham knows how to throw an HBCU party weekend like no other neutral site in HBCU football. Both schools are close and have big alumni bases in town and in the state and this could go from big to huge in Birmingham and definitely moneymaker for the metro. When Protective stadium is completed I would like to see Birmingham try to get the Celebration Bowl on a rotating basis or at least compete for it and definitely going after the SWAC Championship game, now it is much more of a possibility.
I think MinivanDriver’s comment above is the best one I’ve ever read on here. Big amen from me.
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