Is Birmingham this dangerous? (Madison: live in, versus, safe)

[OldBankhead]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

How would you describe a bunch of drivers doing 90 mph across 3 lanes? Or getting aggressively cut off? Or the high amount of aggressive and reckless driving in general?

Life in the big city.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by OldBankhead

Life in the big city.

I've driven through Atlanta, a much bigger city than Birmingham. As much road rage that goes on in Atlanta, Birmingham had a higher proportion of aggressive, dangerous driving on the road. I've talked to other people who have driven through Birmingham, even people from Atlanta. They tell me the same thing. Birmingham was one of the scariest places they drove through, in terms of the levels of aggression and reckless driving on the interstates. Atlanta had rude driving. Tucson had rude driving. Birmingham had alot of reckless snd dangerous driving.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by BOORGONG

Yes. People who grow up on the wrong side of the tracks learn pretty fast that they don’t belong on the good side, and that outsiders don’t belong on theirs either. Pack leaders of street gangs exploit this sense of boundaries which leads to a sense of entrapment and hopelessness.
This sort of cultural trait acts as a depressor, like alcohol, and it conditions every aspect of one’s life.

I hope a smaller city like Birmingham can achieve some of what bigger cities like LA and NY have been able to in curbing the murder rate.

Being from the suburban areas, and being college educated, not to mention a nerd, this was something I didn't immediately think about. Not at the moment I was talking to that guy. I don't think like him. I didn't grow up with the "this is my neighborhood, now stay away" kind of mindset. Actually, there were times I felt like I didn't want to live where I did. Also, in high school, I was kind of a "lone wolf". I didn't feel like I belonged to a particular tribe. I went wherever I felt I was wanted or liked. I suspect "lone wolf" types aren't trusted in the ghetto.

I feel like if Birmingham is as violent as it was in the 1950s, or the 1920s, there is clearly something wrong.

[OldBankhead]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I've driven through Atlanta, a much bigger city than Birmingham. As much road rage that goes on in Atlanta, Birmingham had a higher proportion of aggressive, dangerous driving on the road. I've talked to other people who have driven through Birmingham, even people from ...

WAIT... YOU'VE DRIVEN THROUGH ATLANTA? NO WAY!

I've driven through Atlanta and talked to people too! They told me the opposite. Now what do we do?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by OldBankhead

WAIT... YOU'VE DRIVEN THROUGH ATLANTA? NO WAY!

I've driven through Atlanta and talked to people too! They told me the opposite. Now what do we do?

Yes I've driven through Atlanta. And per capita, Birmingham has more reckless driving. I don't know who you're talking to, but it was easier for me to navigation Atlanta than Birmingham. I don't get why you are not able to admit that Birmingham has a high amount of reckless and aggressive driving, especially for a city of 197,000 people (and a metro of about 1.1 million).

[Nemean]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Being from the suburban areas, and being college educated, not to mention a nerd, this was something I didn't immediately think about. Not at the moment I was talking to that guy. I don't think like him. I didn't grow up with the "this is my neighborhood, now stay away" kind of mindset. Actually, there were times I felt like I didn't want to live where I did. Also, in high school, I was kind of a "lone wolf". I didn't feel like I belonged to a particular tribe. I went wherever I felt I was wanted or liked. I suspect "lone wolf" types aren't trusted in the ghetto.

I feel like if Birmingham is as violent as it was in the 1950s, or the 1920s, there is clearly something wrong.

It hasn't been as persistent. It was going notably better in the first half of the 2010s, when the number of homicides was in the 60s-70s range. Not great, but half of what it's becoming. A big chunk of that was a active, hard-fought effort by the police to try to convince people in the most affected communities that the police would be able to provide justice for them (more active looking into more minors, getting the police involved in non-confrontational community events, etc). However, that narrative cannot hold up in the current greater attitude towards police in general. When local news doesn't get out, national narratives take over.

In Birmingham, we do a good deal of looking at the city's history through the lens of Civil Rights. But that concentrated lens leaves some blind spots. Take the discussion on lynching. Usually the discussion is racism as the cause, but, although racism did take a part, it isn't the fundamental issue. The issue was a distrust in the justice system (from police to the courts) to achieve justice. Black people were in the lynch mobs for some lynchings. It wasn't just in black-on-black lychings either. There's documented black people in the attempted lynching of Richard Hawes, a white man who murdered his own white family; and, from what I can tell, there really wasn't any backlash specifically toward them because of it. This brings up a point, the article you keep on posting mentions how black-on-white crime was overly punished, and black-on-black crime the least. It mentions the sometimes white-on-black was reported, and more so than black-on-black. So if the courts were so in favor of the racist narrative, why the need for lynching to the degree it was used? Because there's something missing. No one ever talks about how white-on-white crime was treated.

Part of the lead up to the attempted Hawes lynching was that there had been a murderer who claimed insanity in trial. He was sentenced to what was considered by many to as a spa treatment, and upon release he immediately killed someone else in the middle of the street. Most people didn't consider that adequate justice at the time. In the post-Civil War era, there was a lot of bad blood between the former confederates and former unionists, which led to a lot of damage. While justice for white people at the time was more possible than for black people, saying that is almost akin to saying you're less likely to freeze to death in Antarctica than you are on Pluto. For a lot of whites, they were better off than black people in general, but that doesn't mean it was particularly good for them either.

However, the fixation on difference of scale of suckage has been used to undermine the very systems that can help pull people themselves out of the situation. People keep on saying education is the answer, but at this point, education is useless you can see the value of it. What's needed now, more than ever isn't particularly "a good education" in the the sense of a school curriculum, but rather more real life examples of how people have used the skillsets education has provided them in order to pull themselves into a better position. This requires both a mix personal self-discipline, as well as good systems that actually enable personal advancement.

[OldBankhead]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Yes I've driven through Atlanta. And per capita, Birmingham has more reckless driving. I don't know who you're talking to, but it was easier for me to navigation.

Holy crap, are you sure? I was certain I was the only one. There's this secret passageway I use called I-20 that no one else knows about.

Nah... you're messing with me. Post proof that you've driven through Atlanta and have talked to people or it didn't happen.

[johnsonkk]

Lost track of the Birmingham murder rates or total but al.com wrote an article that summarized the Birmingham 2022 murder total as the highest ever.

https://www.al.com/news/2023/01/a-tr...e-numbers.html

Over the previous pages, the arguments that it’s just a part of the county, etc. Birmingham is simply a small footprint and the total number of murders, not per capita, is simply too high. Hopefully the mayor can take a different path in 2023. Arguing that it’s not too bad is a non starter. Hope to see the plans for 2023 to reduce murders.

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Yes I've driven through Atlanta. And per capita, Birmingham has more reckless driving. I don't know who you're talking to, but it was easier for me to navigation Atlanta than Birmingham. I don't get why you are not able to admit that Birmingham has a high amount of reckless and aggressive driving, especially for a city of 197,000 people (and a metro of about 1.1 million).

As someone who spends a lot of time driving through Atlanta and, in particular, the racetrack known as 285, it is...well...fantastical to claim that Birmingham has more reckless drivers. An absolutely nonsensical assertion on your part.



Thank goodness we don't have to rely on lazy subjectivity. AllState did the work for us. You know, an insurance company that relies on statistical data and actuarial tables as opposed to something your mother's friend's second cousin said.



On this, the ranking of best drivers based on actual information, Birmingham something like 120 places ahead of Atlanta.



https://www.allstate.com/resources/a...versreport.pdf

[Rick In Madison]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

As someone who spends a lot of time driving through Atlanta and, in particular, the racetrack known as 285, it is...well...fantastical to claim that Birmingham has more reckless drivers. An absolutely nonsensical assertion on your part.



Thank goodness we don't have to rely on lazy subjectivity. AllState did the work for us. You know, an insurance company that relies on statistical data and actuarial tables as opposed to something your mother's friend's second cousin said.



On this, the ranking of best drivers based on actual information, Birmingham something like 120 places ahead of Atlanta.



https://www.allstate.com/resources/a...versreport.pdf

There you go trying to use logic versus trying to fabricate things to meet the message you're trying to preach or fight your trying to start.... Nice work Minivan.

I'm surprised Miami and Ft. Lauderdale are better than they are and and........ better than Atlanta.