Buffalo + NO JOBS = BYE (New York, Rochester: crime rate, credit, how much)

[smalltownusa]

Originally Posted by iloveupstateny

No, I know 3 people who have MBA's and stock shelves at Wegmans. Eek!

It may have to do with the Simon School, RIT and Fisher all producing more MBA grads than the area can absorb....medical is Rochester's strength at the moment and the big businesses are just getting back on their feet so hiring is limited....

Now see if you can find a specialist,nurse/NP/PA or the like out of a job

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by VegasRocks

What ever !
Arizona has 2nd highest job growth. Nevada is the 1st

National companies continue to locate operations
to Metro Phoenix adding their energy to one of the nation's
most diverse regional economies. Over 150 of the Fortune 500
companies maintain a presence in Metro Phoenix.

The region has worked hard and sucessfully to become a
maganet for companies in six caterories
High-Technology
Bioscience
Business services
Software
Tourism and Transportation
Distribution

Heres a sample of some of them.

Intel Corp. has already over 10,000 employees and their investing
$3 billion and adding over 1,000 jobs
Raytheon Defense Electronics has over 10,000 employees
Honeywell Aerospace has over 10,000 employees
JP Morgan Chase & Co has 10,000 employees
Wells Fargo has over 12,000 employees and investing 33 million
adding 1,800 jobs and Wells Fargo Mortgage Services
is building 10 million facility which will create 600 jobs

Phoenix also attracts industries searching for warm,
dry climate that won't interfere with their distrbution networks,
telecommunications systems or administrative operations.

Other companies announcing new or expanded Metro Phoenix
Operations.

Boeing is building a new plant in Mesa AZ
that will produce combat helicopters (next generation Apache)
Boeing was awarded 1.2 Billion contract by the US Gov.
That will create 5,000 jobs

Amazon.com
Google
Discover Card
GE
American Express
Embraer
Capital Group
Pay Pal Inc.
Flexible Technologies
Mortgage Lenders Network
US Airways

Let's address some of what you printed. "Google?" They tried to have a large office there but it's three thousand promised employees turned into 200. I know a few people who run the offices there, Google is thinking of closing that location.
Why?
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FIND THE QUALITY PEOPLE THE NEED TO LIVE AND WORK IN PHOENIX.

Honeywell? 10,000 employees? High paying? I know an engineer that works there and does training throughout the world. There is no way 10,000 people working for Honeywell make good money. Many are repairmen and no, they don't make "good money."

Chase? Wells Fargo? BANKS - mostly tellers, again; making 10 bucks an hour.

Retail? TONS of that here, once again, minium wage.

Read the papers, go to some of the websties that discuss the problems here, Like the Goldwater Institute or Morgan Quitno's statistics. Or read some articles about the present state of educationin Arizona. (State and Feds at Odds Over New Rules for Scoring Arizona Schools)

American Express? How about the fact that it's a CALL CENTER.
Let's discuss what's going on downtown with all the new condos they are building.
NO ONE IS BUYING THEM!
The "condo's" are now being sold as APARTMENTS because they can't get anyone to move into them!
10 - 15 years ago Phoenix was the best place to live, now, it's bubbling over with problems and poverty.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Genghis

This is such a crock, the Phoenix area continues to grow by like 4 percent a year, the construction stalled because they built too much even for this kind of growth. Rest assured, there are many industries booming in Arizona. Go to Buffalo, everything is stagnant. But they are doing a lot of construction. End result will be a lot of empty buildings. The worst that can happen in Phoenix is that it will take a few years for the population to catch up with the construction. Big deal. In Buffalo you have buildings that have been empty since the 70's all over the place. Main Street is deserted half the time. Believe me, Phoenix is not going to end out like Barfalo in the foreseeable future.

Well, it is true, Buffalo can in no way compare to Phoenix. Buffalo has fallen on hard times and I'd be hard pressed to say that it will ever come back from the brink. Unfortunately, I too feel Buffalo has seen it's best days. It needs a new direction.
However, I do argue that Phoenix is all rosey. Because it's not and it's got some many problems and it just cannot catch it's breath. It IS a huge place, there ARE millions who live here, but it is a majority lower middle class population. (Not that Buffalo isn't now also, but that is not the argument here.)
What I'm trying to get across to people, is that Phoenix is in deep sh*t and it's struggling to keep it's head above water (or dirt in this case.) It's almost as if Phoenix has reached it's boiling point and instead of rising above, it's just hanging on. Because of that, it is not ever going to be a wealthy metropolis (like Houston, Dallas, LA, Seattle, east coast cities, etc.) and Scottsdale is the Amherst, Williamsville of Phoenix. I see a repeat of patterns in Phoenix that Buffalo went through and that's frightening.

If I were to choose to move away from where I lived, I'd choose another city. Definately not Phoenix. The weather is way to hot, it's not family friendly, it's struggling with it's illegal population, and it's school system is underfunded to the point where it's the laughing stock of the nation and the majority of the jobs here are for unskilled/uneducated workers.
Having gone through the downturn of Buffalo, it seems to me that I recognize the same turn of events here in Phoenix. To me, what's going on in Phoenix is a huge red flag.
But agreed, Buffalo is not in a better situation than Phoenix.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by VegasRocks

What ever !
Arizona has 2nd highest job growth. Nevada is the 1st

National companies continue to locate operations
to Metro Phoenix adding their energy to one of the nation's
most diverse regional economies. Over 150 of the Fortune 500
companies maintain a presence in Metro Phoenix.

The region has worked hard and sucessfully to become a
maganet for companies in six caterories
High-Technology
Bioscience
Business services
Software
Tourism and Transportation
Distribution

Heres a sample of some of them.

Intel Corp. has already over 10,000 employees and their investing
$3 billion and adding over 1,000 jobs
Raytheon Defense Electronics has over 10,000 employees
Honeywell Aerospace has over 10,000 employees
JP Morgan Chase & Co has 10,000 employees
Wells Fargo has over 12,000 employees and investing 33 million
adding 1,800 jobs and Wells Fargo Mortgage Services
is building 10 million facility which will create 600 jobs

Phoenix also attracts industries searching for warm,
dry climate that won't interfere with their distrbution networks,
telecommunications systems or administrative operations.

Other companies announcing new or expanded Metro Phoenix
Operations.

Boeing is building a new plant in Mesa AZ
that will produce combat helicopters (next generation Apache)
Boeing was awarded 1.2 Billion contract by the US Gov.
That will create 5,000 jobs

Amazon.com
Google
Discover Card
GE
American Express
Embraer
Capital Group
Pay Pal Inc.
Flexible Technologies
Mortgage Lenders Network
US Airways

Shall we?
Here is the link to the "real employers" AZ Top Employers

• Wal-Mart Stores Inc. headquartered in Bentonville, AR, is the top employer in Arizona for 2006.
• OOOOOOoooo....impressive.

Honeywell International, headquartered in Morristown, NJ,
Wells Fargo, headquartered in San Francisco


Intel Corp, Headquartered in Santa Clara, CA,

Raytheon Co. headquartered in Waltham, MA
Home Depot, Inc. headquartered in Atlanta.
Kroger (flying the Fry's Food banner in Arizona) is headquartered in Cincinnati, Ohio

J.P. Morgan Chase, headquartered in New York

MacDonald's restaurants, headquartered in Oakbrooks, IL


Target Corp., headquarterd in Minneapolis, MN
Walgreens Co., headquartered in Deerfield, IL.

Circle K headquartered in Laval, QC, Canada.

Just to name a few.......

Banner Health is from Phoenix as far as I can tell, as is Petsmart, Basha's Supermarkets, and US Airways just moved here, (however they are having a hard time keeping Executives for an extended period of time in Phoenix) and that's about it.

As I said before, MOST of the jobs (I'd say 90%) are lower income wage jobs. The other 10% of us own a small company and live in Scottsdale or Paradise Valley.....
I'm just saying...........

[bungalowbob]

Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart Vendors have created a gold rush in Northwest Arkanas. This is one of the fastest growing areas in America. The Ozarks of Arkansas is where to go!

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by bungalowbob

Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart Vendors have created a gold rush in Northwest Arkanas. This is one of the fastest growing areas in America. The Ozarks of Arkansas is where to go!

Actually my point was that many jobs in Phoenix are low paying.

[iloveupstateny]

Originally Posted by smalltownusa

It may have to do with the Simon School, RIT and Fisher all producing more MBA grads than the area can absorb....medical is Rochester's strength at the moment and the big businesses are just getting back on their feet so hiring is limited....

Now see if you can find a specialist,nurse/NP/PA or the like out of a job

hmmm, small town, you always have such a hostile, gloating attitude like you are trying to almost stick out your tongue to people on this forum from cyberworld...just because ny works for YOU. ok, i get it, you win.

[smalltownusa]

Originally Posted by iloveupstateny

hmmm, small town, you always have such a hostile, gloating attitude like you are trying to almost stick out your tongue to people on this forum from cyberworld...just because ny works for YOU. ok, i get it, you win.

You're making me blush

It may have to do with the Simon School, RIT and Fisher all producing more MBA grads than the area can absorb....medical is Rochester's strength at the moment and the big businesses are just getting back on their feet so hiring is limited....Now see if you can find a specialist,nurse/NP/PA or the like out of a job

But honestly, I have re-read my post (above in red for others to follow along) and can not for the life of me decifer hostility....actually, it fairly describes the Rochester economy at the moment IMO .....***shrug shrug***

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by smalltownusa

It may have to do with the Simon School, RIT and Fisher all producing more MBA grads than the area can absorb....medical is Rochester's strength at the moment and the big businesses are just getting back on their feet so hiring is limited....

Now see if you can find a specialist,nurse/NP/PA or the like out of a job

Simon Mba program has dropped in many rankings due to poor economy.(business week)I know 5 Rit mba graduates that are working at Circuit City.
Back to original post buffalo has 57% of its able population in the workforce compared to glenndale, Arizona is 67.3%. Glenndale Arizona median income is 57,342 and there per cap income is 23,129 compared to buffalo's median income 37,240 and per cap 17,411.


Buffalo largest group of income is people making less than 10k a year
Buffalo city, New York - Selected Economic Characteristics: 2006
Phoenix largest income group is people making 50k to 75k.

Phoenix city, Arizona - Selected Economic Characteristics: 2006

I love when people do not look at the facts. Did anyone read the article in Business 2.0 last summer when they spoke about some of the best jobs in IT are found in phoenix area. Also there is a high demand for CEO positions.
Upstate needs to start being competitive or 3rd world countries will be better to live in then the rust belt.

Oh don't forget Buffalo is ranked 3rd poorest city in america so almost any city will be better.

[I'minformed2]

That's just a little misleading...there wouldn't be as great a disparity in the numbers if you included the suburbs of Buffalo...Glendale is really all suburban, while Buffalo is urban. With the excpetion of Manhattan, any urban city is going to have lower per capita income and higher unemployment than a suburban area.