The Elephant in the Room: Are we being too fiscally conservative? (Oakland: sales, home equity)

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by BlackShoe

California does not have an income problem, it has a spending problem, as hundreds of previous posts from conservatives and moderates have pointed out. Liberals still do not get it, just tax the "Evil Companies" and the "Rich" and everything is solved. Yeah right, make it worse why dont you. First of all, companies do not pay taxes, their employees, customers, and stockholders do. More taxes and regulations translates to higher prices to consumers, which means fewer sales, which in turn means fewer jobs and lower stock prices, which means loss of assets to stockholders. The state fiscal problems lie in many areas, but the three broad main ones are; (A). Public employee salaries and pensions are out of control and must be curtailed. (B). Illegal immigration costs the state an estimated 10 billion dollars a year. Benefits must be eliminated, card check imposed on hires, and deportation of undesirables such as criminals sharply stepped up. (C). The business climate must be made much more friendly by eliminating anti business regulations, fees, and taxes that have driven hundreds of businesses to flee the state in recent years. Realistically, with leftists with Marxist ideology in almost total control of the destiny of the state, the chances of any of these things coming to pass are very remote, which is why California is in such dire condition.

If the state splits East and West who knows, maybe it will wake up the Western part after they see how the East thrives ala Texas, after the split.

[Des-Lab]

But remember. This is just the price we have to pay for the privilege of living here in CA, where we have nice weather, Mongolian art museums, and tasty fish tacos. All of that far outweighs this boring drivel about deficits, entitlements, High Speed Rail Project cost overruns, and something about taxes?

Why should we care about that? Where else can a lesbian, 61 year old Thai amputee womyn swap tongues in public with her 22 year old Hispanic "undocumented" "special friend", along with her 39 year old third cousin Paco, and not have anyone be bothered?

I mean really. Let's get our priorities straight (whoops) here.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by BlackShoe

California does not have an income problem, it has a spending problem, as hundreds of previous posts from conservatives and moderates have pointed out. Liberals still do not get it, just tax the "Evil Companies" and the "Rich" and everything is solved. Yeah right, make it worse why dont you. First of all, companies do not pay taxes, their employees, customers, and stockholders do. More taxes and regulations translates to higher prices to consumers, which means fewer sales, which in turn means fewer jobs and lower stock prices, which means loss of assets to stockholders. The state fiscal problems lie in many areas, but the three broad main ones are; (A). Public employee salaries and pensions are out of control and must be curtailed. (B). Illegal immigration costs the state an estimated 10 billion dollars a year. Benefits must be eliminated, card check imposed on hires, and deportation of undesirables such as criminals sharply stepped up. (C). The business climate must be made much more friendly by eliminating anti business regulations, fees, and taxes that have driven hundreds of businesses to flee the state in recent years. Realistically, with leftists with Marxist ideology in almost total control of the destiny of the state, the chances of any of these things coming to pass are very remote, which is why California is in such dire condition.

Does anyone find it suspicious that we hear the same message over and over again yet no one offers concrete data that we are losing jobs/businesses/etc. There is some anecdotal evidence, but no firm data on actual stats. California still attracts the bulk of the venture capital investment in the US and the world, so obviously people are still starting companies here. It can't be that anti-business.

I think we have a spending prblem and a revenue problem, and solving the state's issues will take new leadership and structural changes, but to claim that the only problems we have are related to public employee pensions and illegal immigration are not productive.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by Des-Lab

But remember. This is just the price we have to pay for the privilege of living here in CA, where we have nice weather, Mongolian art museums, and tasty fish tacos. All of that far outweighs this boring drivel about deficits, entitlements, High Speed Rail Project cost overruns, and something about taxes?

Why should we care about that? Where else can a lesbian, 61 year old Thai amputee womyn swap tongues in public with her 22 year old Hispanic "undocumented" "special friend", along with her 39 year old third cousin Paco, and not have anyone be bothered?

I mean really. Let's get our priorities straight (whoops) here.

+1 rep point for max /s

[Bulldogdad]

Originally Posted by Des-Lab

But remember. This is just the price we have to pay for the privilege of living here in CA, where we have nice weather, Mongolian art museums, and tasty fish tacos. All of that far outweighs this boring drivel about deficits, entitlements, High Speed Rail Project cost overruns, and something about taxes?

Why should we care about that? Where else can a lesbian, 61 year old Thai amputee womyn swap tongues in public with her 22 year old Hispanic "undocumented" "special friend", along with her 39 year old third cousin Paco, and not have anyone be bothered?

I mean really. Let's get our priorities straight (whoops) here.

ROFLMMFAO. You and thatguy are on a roll.....

[nullgeo]

You are ALL missing the biggest danger of them all -- even yeahthatguy seems unawares (hard to believe) ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/us/27mariachi.html

When Mariachi bands in L.A. can't make a fair living we are pretty much all going to suffer consequences beyond the mere failure of government programs. Get real folks. With-hold support for mariachi at your peril ...

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Well: 'All hail to you, chief' ... the pachyderms kneel and bow in the presence of your illuminations ... as always ... but where is Kaczynski when we need him most!? ... languishing in his bunker ... 'O Teddy! hast thou forsaken yeahthatguy? Release him by releasing us all!

Just the messenger.. The message was clear... As for me, I could be one of the ignorant fools I spoke about .. Suffice to say, whether I am or not says nothing about the broader and true critique of the problem. Do you deny the mass ignorance among the populous and the resultant impact that has in a democracy?

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by jade408

Not all tax breaks are created equal. Here are some samples that I can't really support:

• Corn and Soy subsidies
• Commercial property owners and prop 13
• Redevelopment Agencies funding parking lot owners
• Tax breaks for Oil and Utilities companies
• Employers who divert their health care obligation by enrolling employees in Medicare
• Tax breaks for companies who move their headquarters off-shore (and receive benefits for employing locals)

I support "corporate welfare" for anything that can quantifiable directly or indirectly support economic or social well-being. Working on the high-profile cases could generate plenty of revenue for the state.

I'd agree with that list. Of course, you can only eliminate the oil and utility company tax breaks if they are industry specific. Otherwise you'd have to eliminate those tax breaks for all companies that receive them. Even there you can find some legitimate tax breaks though. You may want to encourage the oil industry to invest in newer/cleaner technologies. You may want to encourage utility companies to integrate green energy sources. But yeah, I agree with the gist of what you are saying. My point was merely that there are many tax breaks that corporations receive that are not welfare. Some obviously are though.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by jade408

I am not a big believer in corporate tax breaks or tax breaks for people earning $20M+. The wealthy can afford a few more percentage points of income tax. This would make a huge difference in our states well-being. The same is true of commercial property owners. If you have a large expensive property, you should be subject to a few more taxes.

We aren't funding any infrastructure at all. I hit HUGE potholes daily. Everyone needs and benefits from public infrastructure: roads, schools, transit, public hospitals.

It is a big misconception that we are driving the wealthy people out. They are still here and they want to stay. If Bill Gates complains he is under-taxed, you know something is wrong.

I am happy to support public services, if my money actually goes to fund the stuff they said they were going to. Right now, CA isn't keeping up its end of the bargain and providing for residents.

One thing I hate is all of the "conservatives" saying "public services are horrible, only users and losers take advantage of them" and they are the first ones to use Medicare, Medical, and Social Security benefits. These are all social programs, and many types of people take advantage of them: poor, elderly, disabled, temporarily out of work, or people in transition, etc.

I couldn't agree more with some of your thoughts...

Bill Gates needs to leave Washington State and move to California... WA State has no State Income Tax... just think if Gates had his income taxed at 10% here in California.

The gasoline tax is the perfect example of money no longer going to where they said it was going... the gasoline tax was called the Highway Tax and it's sole purpose was to fund roads... the taxpayers were promised a network of interconnecting highways where I live, the property was bought and the right-of-ways secured... none of the these ever came to fruition because of diversion of the tax money...

The odd thing about Medicare and Social Security is the contributions are mandatory... most look at them as bought and paid for... somewhere, I have an article from former Speaker Pelosi saying that the funds for these programs are in a government lock-box and the public can rest assured the money is safe...

My father paid into Social Security for over 50 years and received 6 checks prior to his death...

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Snort

Tax loopholes benefit left-wing and right-wing "rich people" alike. Now, what would be truly fair: a flat tax.
Everyone pays the same rate.
No loopholes.
This also makes it easier for businesses to budget and project into the future their plans.

Some benefit those of modest means more... such as the dependant credit and home mortgage interest deduction which is of practically no benefit to the very wealthy.