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I would commit suicide if I had reached old age and realized I had not met my full potential, sure. It doesn't have so much to do with material possessions as it does potential. There's something very wrong with settling.
A bit over the top there, don't you think?
Being driven to achieve is certainly an admirable trait, we wouldn't have much of what exist today without some folks with this attitude. However, having a happy "middling" existence has it's benefits too.
Sometimes in being goal driven, one misses the fact they are passing through life.
Where, in any of my posts have I said anything about 'climbing the corporate ladder'? Actually, in my prospective field there IS no corporate ladder to climb...
My dream is to see the world, perhaps start a family and give them a better life than I had, free of insurmountable debt and heavy financial burdens and to help as many people through my work as I can. That, is my idea of my full potential and you can't do that on pennies a day. I'd like not to have my family cramped in a tiny one or two bedroom apartment in rags because money isn't everything and hey, love is enough right?
Can I achieve full potential without money? The short answer is no. But again, you're acting like I said my dream is to become Mrs. Moneypenny and buy the world. I'd like to be comfortable. It's weird, you're acting like there's something unsavory about wanting or achieving success. When did that become such a bad thing?
Yes there are miserable wealthy people but I don't care because I don't aspire to BE wealthy, just comfortable. And while there are lonely and depressed rich folk, let's not pretend every poor person is having the time of their lives.
I'm glad that you (and the some of the others in this thread) would be (or are) content with...well, what, I don't know actually. Living on love I guess? Smacks of cognitive dissonance to me, but I don't know you all so I can't say that's what it is.
Personally, I am glad you joined the discussion and are honest about your feelings. As Derek pointed out, perhaps some of your comments were made glibly ... but you did express some pretty strong opinions that would be hard to take as anything less than cavalier, if not frankly shallow. You now are clarifying ... fair enough ... and I have no reason to take you at anything less than your latest statements. That said, if you think a couple of responses are misjudging your position -- I think you are also misjudging at least mine. Speaking for myself, I have never said that money or professional attainments are, in themselves, evil. I have never said that one must renounce material things in order to find one's potential and happiness or service to others. I have said that money and professional standing are immaterial to essential spiritual wisdom. And I do define spiritual wisdom as being the measure of individual fulfillment. For some, financial acquisitions and professional standing do not stand in the way of self-realization. For many they do. For some those very barriers are key to learning the lesson we are discussing.
I think this is a particularly relevant subject for the California forum, too ... precisely because California is considered by so many to be the most prized destination -- yet one that is "out of reach" due to the financial challenges of attaining contemporary material benchmarks here. This is one of the main reasons I was excited to post Mr. Pardo's story. I have written various pieces of my lifestyle in other posts ... if you haven't noticed (and I don't know why anyone would bother) I live a very "alternative" lifestyle. I live in what most would consider poverty: in little self-converted vans and small boats. I'm not actually poor: I have modest income and I own properties with six rental units. I have net worth. I choose to live the way I do not because I have taken a spiritual vow of poverty -- but because I actually enjoy living this simply. I literally give away three of my six rentals at this time to people who are in need -- because I have enough without that extra income. Now, one might say I am posting about myself as either fiction or in an attempt to somehow feed my ego. But when I post a verified story such as Mr. Pardo's -- well, there you go. There are more than a few ways to be happy without allowing materialism to interfere. Lots of well-meaning individuals would protest that they are simply trying to balance the material and spiritual. And to them I would say: "good luck" ... just be aware of what you sacrifice in doing so. And please consider how outrageously we take consumer consumption for our standards. We need very little to be entirely happy and of great service to those we love.
...
I think this is a particularly relevant subject for the California forum, too ... precisely because California is considered by so many to be the most prized destination -- yet one that is "out of reach" due to the financial challenges of attaining contemporary material benchmarks here. This is one of the main reasons I was excited to post Mr. Pardo's story. I have written various pieces of my lifestyle in other posts ... if you haven't noticed (and I don't know why anyone would bother) I live a very "alternative" lifestyle. I live in what most would consider poverty: in little self-converted vans and small boats. I'm not actually poor: I have modest income and I own properties with six rental units. I have net worth. I choose to live the way I do not because I have taken a spiritual vow of poverty -- but because I actually enjoy living this simply. I literally give away three of my six rentals at this time to people who are in need -- because I have enough without that extra income. Now, one might say I am posting about myself as either fiction or in an attempt to somehow feed my ego. But when I post a verified story such as Mr. Pardo's -- well, there you go. There are more than a few ways to be happy without allowing materialism to interfere. Lots of well-meaning individuals would protest that they are simply trying to balance the material and spiritual. And to them I would say: "good luck" ... just be aware of what you sacrifice in doing so. And please consider how outrageously we take consumer consumption for our standards. We need very little to be entirely happy and of great service to those we love.
Nullgeo, this is very relevant to life in CA, especially with the higher cost in living here and emphasis on financial success. As both husband and father I have taken my role as primary bread winner very seriously. So I've done all the things required (education, experience, hard work) to attain certain levels of success in terms of career, etc... But along the way there has been a constant tug of war between that which is most important and these other goals. So I can say at least for me this post of yours has help to bring clarity in my current situation as I climb the corporate ladder. It is particularly timely for me. When I stop long enough to reflect upon what I really want in life and what's most important I realize that chasing the golden carrot is not it - an aha moment. I could easily go after higher levels from my current position. Instead now I'm thinking simplify - more time with family and less working crazy hours to rise/climb/surpass peers, etc...
For this I thank you! I actually just had a discussion with my wife about it last night. And we both agree what is really important for us. Basically it does not involve going down that path toward more accolades and $$. Simplify, that's my new goal! Don't know what corporate will think when I spring it on them. Haha. I usually always speak my mind at work. But it already feels liberating and I know my family is behind me 100% which is all that really matters.
Thanks again,
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 10-22-2011 at 12:19 PM..
Nullgeo, this is very relevant to life in CA, especially with the higher cost in living here and emphasis on financial success. As both husband and father I have taken my role as primary bread winner very seriously. So I've done all the things required (education, experience, hard work) to attain certain levels of success in terms of career, etc... But along the way there has been a constant tug of war between that which is most important and these other goals. So I can say at least for me this post of yours has help to bring clarity in my current situation as I climb the corporate ladder. It is particularly timely for me. When I stop long enough to reflect upon what I really want in life and what's most important I realize that chasing the golden carrot is not it - an aha moment. I could easily go after higher levels from my current position. Instead now I'm thinking simplify - more time with family and less working crazy hours to rise/climb/surpass peers, etc...
For this I thank you! I actually just had a discussion with my wife about it last night. And we both agree what is really important for us. Basically it does not involve going down that path toward more accolades and $$. Simplify, that's my new goal! Don't know what corporate will think when I spring it on them. Haha. I usually always speak my mind at work. But it already feels liberating and I know my family is behind me 100% which is all that really matters.
Thanks again,
Derek
Uh oh ...
Jokes aside, though ... just want to make sure I've made myself clear: I understand why most folks don't live the way I do ... or the way Reuben Pardo does, either. I am not on a mission to promote alternative lifestyles. I do, however, feel motivated to speak from the heart about matters of the heart ... let individuals take thoughts away from conversation as they will -- and do with their thoughts as they will. The most vital, rewarding essences of life are much simpler than we live it in this country today.
In your case Derek, I must say that anyone with your eye for beauty, as demonstrated by your photography, is certain to find a number of alternatives to corporate identity. There are about a bazillion hopeful photographers out there dreaming of being professionals. While I'd say you have a leg up on many, the competition is so great I'd never assume that you could quit your job and support your family with pictures ... but I wouldn't assume you couldn't either. And I don't just mean your photographic technique ability. What comes across in your photography comes from an appreciation of the spirit in nature that is very deep. That you do so much of it in company of your family speaks volumes. Because of this affinity you have for natural beauty, and the appreciation you have for your family, I am sure, in any case, that you can find all the depth in life you aspire to even remaining in the corporate world you are in now.
Jokes aside, though ... just want to make sure I've made myself clear: I understand why most folks don't live the way I do ... or the way Reuben Pardo does, either. I am not on a mission to promote alternative lifestyles. I do, however, feel motivated to speak from the heart about matters of the heart ... let individuals take thoughts away from conversation as they will -- and do with their thoughts as they will. The most vital, rewarding essences of life are much simpler than we live it in this country today.
In your case Derek, I must say that anyone with your eye for beauty, as demonstrated by your photography, is certain to find a number of alternatives to corporate identity. There are about a bazillion hopeful photographers out there dreaming of being professionals. While I'd say you have a leg up on many, the competition is so great I'd never assume that you could quit your job and support your family with pictures ... but I wouldn't assume you couldn't either. And I don't just mean your photographic technique ability. What comes across in your photography comes from an appreciation of the spirit in nature that is very deep. That you do so much of it in company of your family speaks volumes. Because of this affinity you have for natural beauty, and the appreciation you have for your family, I am sure, in any case, that you can find all the depth in life you aspire to even remaining in the corporate world you are in now.
Haha, thanks. So when I'm out on the streets I can come stay with you right?
Sorry, you know its hard on the internet to not see someone's face when they write (toungue in cheek). I do plan to stay in the corporate world, just hopefully in a more simplified role - less highfalutin. Worse case if my boss fires me which is highly unlikely, I have very marketable skills. I'm also a hiring manager. So I am aware of many openings throughout our organization right now. And I've acutally been thinking about this for some time.
I appreciate you input about my photography. I think the best photographers have a passion and love of nature which then shows through in their work. But I'm not naive either about the business as I have friends who are pros. Their life is not an easy or glamorous road, kinda like a starving artist at times. And you are right that there are many out there trying to make a living at it.
I really enjoy writing software which is my primary skill/trade of interest. The management stuff just sort of evolved out of it as I grew in my career and was promoted. Sometimes the best managers know how to actually do the work.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 10-22-2011 at 01:23 PM..
Haha, thanks. So when I'm out on the streets I can come stay with you right?
Sorry, you know its hard on the internet to not see someone's face when they write (toungue in cheek). I do plan to stay in the corporate world, just hopefully in a more simplified role - less highfalutin. ...
Derek
Yeah, we'll just have to push one of my existing tenants out to the curb ... maybe a tent in the backyard of the Seattle units ...
And yeah, I got that you'd stay in your profession ... just sayin' ... For instance, I was DM'd by another couple a while back, who had read a couple of my posts on another forum ... they wanted to drop out and live on a boat and simplify ... we've had quite an exchange of them picking my brain for some tips ... they are 100% for real and serious ... they've done an admirable job of lining up their ducks and are getting off the subway (they're in NYC) for good ...
I don't get it. Whats the moral of the story? That we can be happy with nothing? Then I guess there is nothing wrong with letting the thieving Sacramento politicians stymie our success with all their laws, fees, and bureaus. And likewise be happy with the pittance that we have left in our paychecks after the leeches steal our hard-earned dollars in the name of compassion and "we are all in this together".
Not me. I won't be happy until me and my kids can prosper as was intended by the smart men who founded this country. And those who stand in the way (mostly Dems) should be run over.
I have to agree with [most of] this. It's wonderful to see someone enjoy simpler pleasures nowadays, but we shouldn't let Washington and Sacramento force all of us to adopt that kind of mentality. Those of us who want to actually make something of ourselves shouldn't be punished for doing so.
I have to agree with [most of] this. It's wonderful to see someone enjoy simpler pleasures nowadays, but we shouldn't let Washington and Sacramento force all of us to adopt that kind of mentality. Those of us who want to actually make something of ourselves shouldn't be punished for doing so.
No one is saying you should roll over and play dead or stop voting. That wasn't the moral of the story at all = not getting it. But when that line of thinking dominates everything you do and you can no longer enjoy the things which really count, then something is wrong. Many on the forum do nothing but propagandize evey post with their complaints about CA, a call to arms, as if that is all that matters in CA when there is so much more to life here. It's not always about politics and what you are owed by someone else. I wonder if that is what these same people talk about relentlessly with their work associates, friends, and family. Somehow I seriously doubt it.
No one is saying you should roll over and play dead or stop voting. That wasn't the moral of the story at all = not getting it. But when that line of thinking dominates everything you do and you can no longer enjoy the things which really count, then something is wrong. Many on the forum do nothing but propagandize evey post with their complaints about CA, a call to arms, as if that is all that matters in CA when there is so much more to life here. It's not always about politics and what you are owed by someone else. I wonder if that is what these same people talk about relentlessly with their work associates, friends, and family. Somehow I seriously doubt it.
Derek
Sorry, I don't mean to politicize the topic. What rubs me the wrong way is that it's frustrating enough that on one hand, you're working to achieve your highest potential, and on the other hand, political forces conspire to take more of it away and keep you under their thumb. And on top of that, people take this article and use it to propagandize the idea that we don't really need all that material stuff. End result: either we continue to work harder for less benefit to ourselves, or we give up and cruise the Metro bus all day.
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I usually always speak my mind at work. But it already feels liberating and I know my family is behind me 100% which is all that really matters. 
