Will you be voting for the tax measures this fall? (Oakland: lease, home)

[TimC2462]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

There are studies out there that indicate having successful and educated parents has as much to do with school performance as anything. It reminds me of a common football argument. Does a good QB make his receivers or vice versa? Do affluent areas tend to have good schools because they really are that much better (spend money wisely, hire better teachers), or because the parents are just more educated and successful? Ditto for private schools. I know one elementary school teacher who swears by this. She taught in an affluent planned community in Orlando. She couldn't say enough about how good the kids were, how easy they made her job. And then the housing bubble grew. People were buying homes left and right and renting them out. Over a few years she went from having a dream teaching job to a completely average teaching job. The kids were no longer such a pleasure to teach.

I grew up dirt poor and hate to think there is any truth to this. I think there is though.

It's a socioeconomic issue.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

I'm not endorsing at throwing money at the problem. I'm endorsing fiscal responsibility and more efficient use of the taxpayer's money. A lot of the blame is being placed on teachers who have nothing to defend themselves against superintendents and administrative officials who make salaries in six figures. They are the ones who have to put up with parents who may refuse to take any responsible role in their children's education (and they may happen to be taxpayers who want a lot for almost nothing).

When did teachers become parents of every single student in the classroom and when did they become the enemy?

Nobody wants an inefficient government.

Agree with you there.. Nothing to be argued. However, many problem exists and there are effective ways of resolving them.. Least of all the approaches that have been taken

[majoun]

Originally Posted by mayorhaggar

Californians never ever vote for tax increases, especially in a crappy economy. I'll vote for it but only because there's no optional vote to gut prison spending or reform pensions or reform prop 13.

The three things that need to be done to improve California and put it on sounder financial footing are sadly politically impossible.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

It's a socioeconomic issue.

Agreed and is a whole can of worms in and of itself. Meanwhile, as you agreed, it serves no purpose throwing excessive amounts of money at the education system ... However, its exactly what people who stood to gain the most from it (public school workers and govt.).. 500 idiotic programs to 'get kids more educated' later and nothing has changed (go figure).

[Bulldogdad]

Someone want to send this unofficial C-D poll to Brownie. Most of whom probably voted for him.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

it serves no purpose throwing excessive amounts of money at the education system.

Where do you get the idea that anyone is throwing excessive amounts of money at it? Nationally, California ranks something like 43rd in per student spending.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by mayorhaggar

I hope none of you have kids planning on going to public universities.

Can you believe that the UC regents are considering a 6% tuition hike? It's appalling to see what's happened to the affordability of higher education in California.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

Numbers don't tell the whole story. I could summarize everything I've seen in the classroom at the elementary level and based in input that I've received from elementary school teachers -- and it wouldn't make sense to the public. What's on paper and what really goes on in the classroom is like night and day.

I know our state has a lot of spending problem and I've been one of the harshest critics on this board, but I don't let politics get in the way of facts. If anyone wants to be absolute certain when making a statement about an issue such as public school education, then I suggest spending a day or two in a public school and observing what the teachers have to put up with.

You kind of made my point... it is the public school system that creates the environment...

My Father left teaching because he felt kids should come before politics.

My brother and his family were energetic supporters of their local public school in the Mt Diablo School District in Pleasant Hill CA... he and his wife served on numerous committees, classroom help... and mundane things like yard duty.

They were disenfranchised when the district wouldn't let the Landscape Committee Landscape because only union district employees and do that...

Thousands of dollars of donations in plants, irrigation and even the water to revive the ball field from local licensed contractors and stores was turned down... the only thing the committee was supposed to do was raise money.

I was shocked when they jointly pulled their kids and sent them to the local private school... they said educating their children is something you don't get a second chance at...

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

While I am not voting for either of the taxes measures the answer to your question is selection.

Private schools don't have to take everyone. Furthermore, it is much easier for them to expel unruly students compared to public schools. Heck, some private schools require an entrance exam which will obviously select out less able students and perhaps even learning disabled students.

As for home-schooling that is basically one to one tutoring. If the parent is intelligent and well-prepared it is not a big surprise that a child would be a top achiever.

Valid to a point...

As stated I live in Oakland CA... the local Catholic school in the Fruitvale District (Almost all ESL) is proud in that no student is turned away for lack of funds... they really do take everyone that wants to be there and the over crowded classrooms are proof... some almost double the class size of the public schools.

It is true that trouble makers are not tolerated... but, this is also true in public schools because trouble makers are often sent to special schools. Isn't keeping troublemakers in normal schools a dis-service to other students and part of the problem in many public schools... which is lack of discipline?

As to home schooling... I think parental dedication and involvement is more then half the battle... I doubt I could do it... but, was surprised to know many that do and some in very affluent Bay Area Districts.

[TimC2462]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

You kind of made my point... it is the public school system that creates the environment...

My Father left teaching because he felt kids should come before politics.

My brother and his family were energetic supporters of their local public school in the Mt Diablo School District in Pleasant Hill CA... he and his wife served on numerous committees, classroom help... and mundane things like yard duty.

They were disenfranchised when the district wouldn't let the Landscape Committee Landscape because only union district employees and do that...

Thousands of dollars of donations in plants, irrigation and even the water to revive the ball field from local licensed contractors and stores was turned down... the only thing the committee was supposed to do was raise money.

I was shocked when they jointly pulled their kids and sent them to the local private school... they said educating their children is something you don't get a second chance at...

I get the entire point you are trying to make.

I know there are bad public schools that can create disastrous environment for academic learning, but there are also good public schools that foster healthy environment for learning. I just don't think the right approach is to lump all public school districts into one category.

There's a lot of politics from both sides that are preventing us from tackling the real issues and presenting solutions. I don't give a damn about either political party; I give a damn about people.