Question: Why would I want to put a new business in California? (Los Angeles: lease, high school)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives

Nice dodge, but California's manufacturing job base is over 30% larger than Texas's. A larger percentage of CA's labor force works in manufacturing in comparison to Texas.

The great "Texas Miracle" is that it's finally catching up a little bit after all these years.

Even if true, the MFG base in CA is leaving CA, while TX is gaining.

Super size that order?

[twilliams_ca]

I always find it funny, that whenever people talk about jobs, they mostly just talk about manufacturing, and seem to only rate a state on how attractive it is to manufacturing.

I get that people like manufacturing because it is viewed as the industry promising the most jobs, but chasing manufacturing, has lend to a race to the bottom, in other states. Are we sure we want that?

Another thing, how come we never talk about attracting STEM jobs? Don't we want to rebuild Silicon Valley?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by twilliams_ca

I always find it funny, that whenever people talk about jobs, they mostly just talk about manufacturing, and seem to only rate a state on how attractive it is to manufacturing.

I get that people like manufacturing because it is viewed as the industry promising the most jobs, but chasing manufacturing, has lend to a race to the bottom, in other states. Are we sure we want that?

Another thing, how come we never talk about attracting STEM jobs? Don't we want to rebuild Silicon Valley?

There are not enough people qualified for tech jobs nor enough tech Jobs available as it is. Manufacturing is what a tremendous amount of people are involved in and it is necessary. Driving it out hurts a huge part of the populace. Yes some States that were heavily dependent on manufacturing have problems, but those drawing what is left are doing better than CA. The ones declining are where the Unions controlled the manufacturing to too great a degree.

With STEM jobs again there are only so many. To chase Tech and Stem jobs only is really saying we don't want the vast majority of the middle class to have work, so they can leave the State or be happy working in Fast Food jobs or be on welfare. That is happening because Manufacturing jobs are looked down on by the "elite" who just think it is low class. Every State needs EVERY type of industry and at a level where employment numbers are good for everyone. CA is paying the price for taking the wrong course.

[twilliams_ca]

Originally Posted by expatCA

There are not enough people qualified for tech jobs nor enough tech Jobs available as it is. Manufacturing is what a tremendous amount of people are involved in and it is necessary. Driving it out hurts a huge part of the populace. Yes some States that were heavily dependent on manufacturing have problems, but those drawing what is left are doing better than CA. The ones declining are where the Unions controlled the manufacturing to too great a degree.

With STEM jobs again there are only so many. To chase Tech and Stem jobs only is really saying we don't want the vast majority of the middle class to have work, so they can leave the State or be happy working in Fast Food jobs or be on welfare. That is happening because Manufacturing jobs are looked down on by the "elite" who just think it is low class. Every State needs EVERY type of industry and at a level where employment numbers are good for everyone. CA is paying the price for taking the wrong course.

I am trying to warn you that we might be in danger of losing one industry, chasing after another, and you turn it into a class warfare post. A lot of STEM jobs are held by middle class people. Where did you ever get the idea that we are all rich SOBs?

There is not enough tech jobs, because their is not enough qualified people, they go where there is a large enough workforce. There is not enough qualified people, because not enough people can afford the training. That is because the state(s) have to cut back their budgets, so they can lower taxes to make themselves attractive to manufacturing jobs, and they are only here as long as the costs they low.

Again, I am not putting down people who are working in manufacturing, just don't kill my industry, in the process.

[jm1982]

But what it seemed expactCA was saying was to not just chase Tech and Stem jobs only.

I agree with this as well. A lot of manufacturing would include STEM type jobs too. So I am not sure why they should be put in different categories.

We have less people working in manufacturing now because the technology has become more advanced.

Look at car manufacturing, it's still done in America, but it's not done with as many workers as before.

I think there are still a lot of opportunities for manufacturing and there seems to be a much higher interest in products made in the U.S from consumers.

This is pretty interesting and shows that the believe that "nothing in manufactured in the U.S anymore" is a lie.
U.S. Manufacturing in Context

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by twilliams_ca

I always find it funny, that whenever people talk about jobs, they mostly just talk about manufacturing, and seem to only rate a state on how attractive it is to manufacturing.

I get that people like manufacturing because it is viewed as the industry promising the most jobs, but chasing manufacturing, has lend to a race to the bottom, in other states. Are we sure we want that?

Another thing, how come we never talk about attracting STEM jobs? Don't we want to rebuild Silicon Valley?

Could be because manufacturing requires a broad swath of skills... STEM... all the way down to assembly, shipping and warehouse staff.

[twilliams_ca]

Originally Posted by jm1982

But what it seemed expactCA was saying was to not just chase Tech and Stem jobs only.

I agree with this as well. A lot of manufacturing would include STEM type jobs too. So I am not sure why they should be put in different categories.

We have less people working in manufacturing now because the technology has become more advanced.

Look at car manufacturing, it's still done in America, but it's not done with as many workers as before.

I think there are still a lot of opportunities for manufacturing and there seems to be a much higher interest in products made in the U.S from consumers.

This is pretty interesting and shows that the believe that "nothing in manufactured in the U.S anymore" is a lie.
U.S. Manufacturing in Context

I consider STEM type jobs different because I see, a need for investing in education, specially post-secondary, in order of these jobs to accessible to the middle class.

And, education funding is always near the top of the list, for things to cuts, to fund tax cuts.

[oldtrader]

Half of all STEM jobs do not require a 4 year college education.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/res...economy610.pdf

What are STEM jobs. Some that are considered STEM jobs.

This Is What STEM Jobs Really Look Like | Co.Exist | ideas + impact

Again, I am not putting down people who are working in manufacturing, just don't kill my industry, in the process.

Your industry needs manufacturing to support the need for STEM jobs.

However without manufacturing, a lot of the STEM jobs in your industry will not even exist. The success of both are tied together today. If the manufacturing is moved to other states, the STEM jobs follow or often precede the manufacturing hiring.

You cannot have manufacturing without STEM jobs, and there is no need for a lot of the STEM jobs without the manufacturing.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by twilliams_ca

I am trying to warn you that we might be in danger of losing one industry, chasing after another, and you turn it into a class warfare post. A lot of STEM jobs are held by middle class people. Where did you ever get the idea that we are all rich SOBs?

There is not enough tech jobs, because their is not enough qualified people, they go where there is a large enough workforce. There is not enough qualified people, because not enough people can afford the training. That is because the state(s) have to cut back their budgets, so they can lower taxes to make themselves attractive to manufacturing jobs, and they are only here as long as the costs they low.

Again, I am not putting down people who are working in manufacturing, just don't kill my industry, in the process.

Hi,

I agree with you. However mfg has long been a middle class job opportunity. It isn't just the entry level guy either. How many people in CA qualify for a STEM job compared to those who don't? Keep ALL types of jobs and recognize some people have no interest in STEM type jobs or advanced education or simply can't take the courses for a variety of reasons. Imagine if Apple were building the 10 million a month Iphones here? Yep that is what they do in China. Tech here and ........ Why are they not doing so? Well labor cost certainly is a part of it, but not all of it. For a while textile jobs were going the same way, overseas. Yikes they are growing in the South East now. Many companies are bringing back what they farmed out due to poor workmanship and other issues. They are coming back "here" to the USA, but not CA.

Don't kill any type of work, but the CA legislature doesn't agree with you or I. Part of it is an elitist attitude (not you) that feels anyone that is an American, particularly privileged enough to live in CA should go to college, get a degree and work in a STEM job. Anyone not doings so should leave the State as the jobs they want/need don't fit the picture. WHY is the legislature driving such businesses out of the State?

By the way a good example. I know of a business that makes a special product and ONLY theirs fits the needs of several large CA manufacturers. Making this product requires solvents. the company chose a solvent recognized as a zero VOC (good for the ozone) product by the USA and Europe. Now Europe's requirements are tighter than any in the USA. OK fine until it was found that it cannot be used in the So Cal AQMD area. Why not? the AQMD said "we haven't tested it yet".

Two problems. ALL the scientific testing has been done and even Europe's requirements are tougher than CA's. The second problem is that the product has been available for YEARS and CA has not tested it????? They do not want any Chemicals except the few they allow and even those are problematical.

OK, the Company stopped selling the product in the area and .... the customers who are not just the end user/mfg now have a poorer product to sell to the public. Their competitors in other States can use it and sell their products in CA. The MFG of the product, the shops using the product to modify the end mfg's product, the end mfg, his distributors, retailers all ...... lose money. A BIG snow ball all because CA wants certain businesses and products (even if good) OUT of CA. The jobs and the income to the State all go with them as they leave for a more business friendly State. This has been repeated many times and continues.

I am with you don't kill any job or business

[Ultrarunner]

The boating industry ran into the same issues on two-strokes.

Basically banned at all the lakes I frequented.

West Marine started to sell a very expensive vegetable base substitute for two stroke engine oil that met Europes tough standards... basically cost 5 times what a quart of regular two stroke cost.

I asked at my favorite lakes if I could use it and take my little 35 hp boat out... was told by Tahoe Area Regional Planning NO... it would be impossible to determine who was using the biodegradable vegetable oil...

I no longer go boating and neither does the money I would spend each summer.

To be fair... the agency covers Nevada and California parts of Tahoe.