Gov Brown Signs $15 CA min wage law RIP California Businesses (loan, gated)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Automation will replace workers no matter what the minimum wage is, as the costs of automation decrease it will be implemented no matter what the minimum wage is.

When is the last time restaurants lowered prices? Geez, they had the benefit of $7.25 an hour for 9 years and how many times during that period did they reduce prices? It's just not that big of a deal and prices don't go up that much with minimum wage increases since wages are only 17-25% of the cost of goods sold and not every worker in the industry earns minimum wage.

Food prices go up but no one on CD seems to want to start hair on fire threads about how the price of ground beef which has doubled since 2010 means the death of restaurants and fast food stores even though food consumes something like 30% of the cost of goods sold for restaurants and fast food stores, but around here any cost increase other than wages is met with crickets

I don't think you can pull off large minimum wage increases in SW Missouri, or in most parts of Louisiana or Alabama but for most of the west coast it's moot because employers are not finding employees who will work for anything close to $9 or $10 an hour, those employees find that they can do better working in the gig economy. By the time the $15 minimum goes into effect I am guessing that most employees in impacted areas will already be making that.

You are right everything is going up. Raising the minimum wage just feeds it more. People buy less when they have less and that also drops prices. If all we do is raise, raise, raise the costs; only the rich will be happy. The problem is not the level of pay it is the uncontrolled inflation that no one wants to address as an issue. And a lot of it is driven by greed as so much comes into the US from people making a $1.00 and hour in another Country and it sells for a huge amount. I looked in an up scale clothing store and $50.00 shirts were being made in Bangladesh for penny's (Not Penny's the store). Those shirts used to be made by someone here and now they must seek any job they can find and ... fewer jobs exist and robotics will make it worse as I agree. It really is a bigger problem than just the minimum wage issue.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Yes we should want to make sure labor costs are attractive if we want to be competitive with other states and countries.
So employers are the ones actually paying and writing checks to pay employees yet the employer shouldn't determine the wage ?
This is another step towards socialism but of course that's what some in this country want .

Min wages aren't at $15 yet in CA but they will be soon

Of course the pro $15 crowd will just say the businesses weren't "innovative " enough to succeed .

Soon? The minimum wage for large employers won't be $15 an hour until 2022, and it will be 2023 before that wage applies to small employers.

Why don't we talk about something realistic - like what the minimum wage in California is right now. Since Jan 1 2017 it's been $10.50 an hour for large employers and $10 for small employers. Is that wage increase killing jobs too? Are fast food stores closing en masse and moving to Arkansas and Tennessee? Have the prices of Happy Meals gone up so much that people have quit buying them? And I'm not being snarky I'm asking you a serious question - what has $10.50 an hour done to business in California?

The price of rent is going up far faster than anyones wages, and unless minimum wage workers are all homeless or sleep on their parent's sofa we are going to be running out of people who are willing to work for low wages in the very near future, it just won't be economically feasible particularly when most of those jobs aren't even close to being full time, they are typically 20-25 hours a week with schedules that change weekly and make it difficult for a worker to hold two low paying jobs.

Maybe the solution isn't minimum wage increases, maybe fast food restaurants should allow their employees to sleep in their cars in their parking lot and they can install a portable shower so they don't stink too bad when they start their shift

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

You are right everything is going up. Raising the minimum wage just feeds it more. People buy less when they have less and that also drops prices. If all we do is raise, raise, raise the costs; only the rich will be happy. The problem is not the level of pay it is the uncontrolled inflation that no one wants to address as an issue. And a lot of it is driven by greed as so much comes into the US from people making a $1.00 and hour in another Country and it sells for a huge amount. I looked in an up scale clothing store and $50.00 shirts were being made in Bangladesh for penny's (Not Penny's the store). Those shirts used to be made by someone here and now they must seek any job they can find and ... fewer jobs exist and robotics will make it worse as I agree. It really is a bigger problem than just the minimum wage issue.

There are not enough people earning minimum wage for them to put upward pressure on any other prices, and they don't have enough disposable impact to drive prices for anything except maybe room shares. Even at $10.50 in California, minimum wage workers with half a brain will quit working and work in the gig economy. The daughter of a friend of mine just did that, she's going to college and has worked for McDonalds for 3 years she's a shift lead but she said when she got promoted they cut her hours so her take home pay is the same. She just quit, went out and bought a bunch of cleaning supplies and had business cards made. She now cleans houses and offers a poop scooper service. She's making around $400-$500 a week and can pretty much name her hours.

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Soon? The minimum wage for large employers won't be $15 an hour until 2022, and it will be 2023 before that wage applies to small employers.

Why don't we talk about something realistic - like what the minimum wage in California is right now. Since Jan 1 2017 it's been $10.50 an hour for large employers and $10 for small employers. Is that wage increase killing jobs too? Are fast food stores closing en masse and moving to Arkansas and Tennessee? Have the prices of Happy Meals gone up so much that people have quit buying them? And I'm not being snarky I'm asking you a serious question - what has $10.50 an hour done to business in California?

The price of rent is going up far faster than anyones wages, and unless minimum wage workers are all homeless or sleep on their parent's sofa we are going to be running out of people who are willing to work for low wages in the very near future, it just won't be economically feasible particularly when most of those jobs aren't even close to being full time, they are typically 20-25 hours a week with schedules that change weekly and make it difficult for a worker to hold two low paying jobs.

Maybe the solution isn't minimum wage increases, maybe fast food restaurants should allow their employees to sleep in their cars in their parking lot and they can install a portable shower so they don't stink too bad when they start their shift

Yes but 2022 and 2023 is right around the corner though. That's a short amount of time for wages to go up about 50% from what they are now.

Also in Los Angeles it will be by 2020 which is only 2.5 years from now. L.A is a city with a lot more businesses employing low wage workers versus Seattle.. so this should be an interesting little experiment the politicians are playing with the economy.

Also remember. Gov Brown was against the $15 wage law before he was for it , because he was pressured by the unions.
So he did it for political reasons, not because he thought it was a great idea.
He knows it's bad for the economy , yet he still did it.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Yes but 2022 and 2023 is right around the corner though. That's a short amount of time for wages to go up about 50% from what they are now.

Also in Los Angeles it will be by 2020 which is only 2.5 years from now. L.A is a city with a lot more businesses employing low wage workers versus Seattle.. so this should be an interesting little experiment the politicians are playing with the economy.

Also remember. Gov Brown was against the $15 wage law before he was for it , because he was pressured by the unions.
So he did it for political reasons, not because he thought it was a great idea.
He knows it's bad for the economy , yet he still did it.

So you refuse to talk about anything except $15 an hour, ok that's your call. And 2022 is not right around the corner JM, it's 5 years from now..

[Finper]

It's going up to 12.00 on July 1st here for large employers so let the games begin.

[phantompilot]

Originally Posted by jm1982

I was in France in 2015 and noticed that they had the kiosks and seemed like they had fewer employees than the average McDonald's in the USA

Also they seemed to take longer to get your food so that's something we would probably have to deal with too

Customer is basically getting less for more money .

How are they getting less? And why would it be more money?

If you're referring to your France trip, that's just the way it is there. Restaurant food is expensive. Has nothing to do with kiosks. It would be even more costly if they didn't have the kiosks.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

There are not enough people earning minimum wage for them to put upward pressure on any other prices, and they don't have enough disposable impact to drive prices for anything except maybe room shares. Even at $10.50 in California, minimum wage workers with half a brain will quit working and work in the gig economy. The daughter of a friend of mine just did that, she's going to college and has worked for McDonalds for 3 years she's a shift lead but she said when she got promoted they cut her hours so her take home pay is the same. She just quit, went out and bought a bunch of cleaning supplies and had business cards made. She now cleans houses and offers a poop scooper service. She's making around $400-$500 a week and can pretty much name her hours.

Your friends daughter is doing it the right way.

They won't pay enough, she leaves.

She doesn't whine about it, and want the State to force them to pay more, she starts her own business.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Your friends daughter is doing it the right way.
They won't pay enough, she leaves.
She doesn't whine about it, and want the State to force them to pay more, she starts her own business.

I agree, and if more and more people do what she did, low paying employers will have to figure out a way to find employees who are willing to work for crap wages and no benefits. Honestly outside of the pay the worst thing about fast food jobs is that you go home smelling like grease. Both my boys did their time in those craptastic jobs and I'll never forget them walking in the door smelling like two rancid french fries

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by phantompilot

How are they getting less? And why would it be more money?

If you're referring to your France trip, that's just the way it is there. Restaurant food is expensive. Has nothing to do with kiosks. It would be even more costly if they didn't have the kiosks.

My point is people are getting less service . Have to order from a kiosk and longer wait times .