Something that bugs me about Prop 56 (Tobacco/E-cigarette tax) (pros and cons, organic)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I voted yes. I also voted yes on the soda tax in Oakland, and I also voted yes on legalizing/regulating marijuana. To be frank, I'm tired of my insurance premiums rising because of smokers, and since I've lost several family members to lung cancer and emphysema, and I wouldn't mind at all if cigarettes went away altogether. FWIW, I used to smoke about a pack and half a day when I was a young, stupid teenager up until my early twenties. It took me a while to quit, and I'm ashamed to admit I was a ever a smoker, but it's one of the most harmful things you can do to your body and those around you. I personally wouldn't mind if a similar tax was levied on alcohol either. I drink, but California booze prices are ridiculously low compared to other parts of the country, so I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for a vice I enjoy.

To those who would say I'm a hypocrite for voting yes on this tax, and voting yes on legalized marijuana, I beg to differ. People should have a right to do whatever they want to their bodies in their own homes, but if it's going to cost society to clean up after them when they have bad side effects or their behaviors effect other people negatively (obesity/diabetes, second hand smoke, drunk/stoned driving, etc), that's when I say: if your vices matter to you so much, you might as well kick in some extra cash so you can enjoy them, while the rest of us are less burdened by your personal choices. We can argue about where the tax money should go (I prefer to specific causes, rather than just the general fund), but I'd rather that money at least come from someone else's personal vice fund than anywhere else.

Yep. Right again. It is a monstrous cost to society without the slightest offsetting benefit to anyone. And a monstrous temptation for youth who have not yet developed their experienced perspective on the reality of adopting such risks.

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Right. While we're at it, let's remove ingredient labels from packaged foods and abolish the Fair Packaging and Labeling Act (FPLA) of 1967. Let people decide on their own what's inside that stuff they purchase.

Good point

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

Just forget all the studies we can all find to "prove" all of our different points. Let's just use our own brains for just a minute.

Have you ever seen the residue on a pipe used for smoking pot?

Now, is saying that pot is better than cigarettes, saying they are not harmful?

I wonder why the classic image of someone smoking pot, is someone coughing.

But, you all love to believe it's not harmful and is beneficial, yatta yatta. Back in the day, cigarettes were promoted as good for you, too.

Your points are simply not logical. But, maybe that's the pot talking.......

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

Okay, here's a lovely image of bongs that are supposed to make the smoke so much healthier for you. It's about how to clean them. And none of this is coating your lungs?

How To Clean Your Bong Or Pipe

Logic, kids.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

Just forget all the studies we can all find to "prove" all of our different points. Let's just use our own brains for just a minute.

Have you ever seen the residue on a pipe used for smoking pot?

Now, is saying that pot is better than cigarettes, saying they are not harmful?

I wonder why the classic image of someone smoking pot, is someone coughing.

But, you all love to believe it's not harmful and is beneficial, yatta yatta. Back in the day, cigarettes were promoted as good for you, too.

Your points are simply not logical. But, maybe that's the pot talking.......

"Forget studies?" Why? If you have legitimate medical studies proving your claim that pot causes lung cancer, I think you should absolutely share them. It would be a service.

That said, I haven't read any posts here saying that pot is good for your lungs. Of course people often cough when they inhale pot. Same for cigarettes. Same for breathing any exhaust. Dust. Farts. No one has said it is good for you. What some of us are saying is: Pot doesn't cause lung cancer. Pot doesn't begin to carry the dangers as other recreational substances including alcohol (which is not to condemn alcohol ... just a flat, comparative truth). People don't die from pot use or abuse. Period. It has its dangers, like everything else over consumed. That's all. No need for hyperbole.

[04kL4nD]

So your 'evidence' is that marijuana makes people cough and it leaves a concentrated residue in pipes? No, I'm sorry, that's not going to do. You will need to cite actual medical/peer reviewed studies that can provide direct proof that marijuana smoke causes cancer and kills people at the same rate as tobacco. I never once claimed that marijuana smoke is good for your lungs. In fact common sense would suggest otherwise. But vaping isn't good for anyone's lungs either, yet a lot of people are trying to promote is as a safer alternative to cigarette smoking, even though those vape devices produce extremely hot vapor, and studies have shown it can cause popcorn lung.

As for the mental/psychological effects of MJ? Yes, it obviously causes impairment. So does alcohol. If you want to do a direct comparison, the medical community overwhelmingly agrees that alcohol causes more harmful side effects to the user and society than basically every other drug (including heroin and cocaine, which there is some debate). Would you like to know where marijuana ranks on that list?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

So your 'evidence' is that marijuana makes people cough and it leaves a concentrated residue in pipes? No, I'm sorry, that's not going to do. You will need to cite actual medical/peer reviewed studies that can provide direct proof that marijuana smoke causes cancer and kills people at the same rate as tobacco. I never once claimed that marijuana smoke is good for your lungs. In fact common sense would suggest otherwise. But vaping isn't good for anyone's lungs either, yet a lot of people are trying to promote is as a safer alternative to cigarette smoking, even though those vape devices produce extremely hot vapor, and studies have shown it can cause popcorn lung.

As for the mental/psychological effects of MJ? Yes, it obviously causes impairment. So does alcohol. If you want to do a direct comparison, the medical community overwhelmingly agrees that alcohol causes more harmful side effects to the user and society than basically every other drug (including heroin and cocaine, which there is some debate). Would you like to know where marijuana ranks on that list?

And the hits keep right on coming ...

Listen folks, like what you like. Dislike what you dislike. Fine. But don't try to make up or perpetuate fictions. Pot has been around since forever. Humanity has prospered in spite of pot, alcohol, opium, cigarettes, sugar, and general stupidity.

[04kL4nD]

I get why a lot of people simply don't like it. Marijuana smoke stinks, people baked out of their minds in public are annoying, and D.A.R.E was supposed to teach everyone to "just say no". But refusing to address legitimate research that would up end your own personal biases is willful ignorance. It's a good thing we have scientists and educated people to find the truth, and it's a really good thing people are finally starting to wake up and accept it.

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

Marijuana smoke doesn't cause cancer.

Because it's special, magic smoke.

Okay. We'll see.

In the meantime, the American Lung Association disagrees with you.

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smo...ww.google.com/

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

And the hits keep right on coming ...

Listen folks, like what you like. Dislike what you dislike. Fine. But don't try to make up or perpetuate fictions. Pot has been around since forever. Humanity has prospered in spite of pot, alcohol, opium, cigarettes, sugar, and general stupidity.

This is the unvarnished truth and funny as heck to me when I think that we're teetering on the edge where cigarettes may soon be outlawed altogether. To think I live in a time where cigarettes will end up being illegal and pot being legal. Feels like I'm living in the upside down world of Stranger Things.

[04kL4nD]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

Marijuana smoke doesn't cause cancer.

Because it's special, magic smoke.

Okay. We'll see.

In the meantime, the American Lung Association disagrees with you.

Marijuana and Lung Health | American Lung Association

There is absolutely nothing in that link that tells us anything we didn't know about marijuana smoke. We've already agreed that it's not good for your lungs. Please show me where it says that marijuana definitively causes lung cancer and can lead to death in a third of regular smokers, like cigarette smoke does. I'll wait.

You do realize that while tobacco alone contains known carcinogens, it's the tobacco companies that include additives (including nicotine) and thousands of other chemicals to make them more addictive, right? Please show me where the same thing has happened to marijuana. I'll still wait.


You have this weird false equivalency you refuse to let go of, based on anecdotal evidence (you hang out with annoying pot heads, you've met annoying pot heads at the gas station, you've seen pot smoke residue on pipes which grosses you out, etc), but you still can't refute my earlier claim about marijuana being overwhelmingly less harmful to the human body and society as a whole, when compared with legal substances like tobacco and alcohol. I'll wait for a smoking gun to prove me and the entire scientific community (which has been the only reason why it's even up for debate in the first place) wrong. Otherwise, you'll just have to get used to pot being legal and move on with your life like the rest of the country will eventually have to do as well.