Why californians didn't start a proposition to abolish state income tax? (Barstow: car registration, loan)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

For many it is simple ignorance of the how, why and methodology of Prop 13.

Going forward by first establishing we are all in the same boat his change the hearts and minds of many a co-worker and the latest one is a Doctor that just bought a 1.3 million dollar home in Pleasanton CA...

He started by saying he doesn't have Prop 13... so I had to educate him... now he understands.

Hopefully everyone will grasp it. It benefits .... everyone who buys a house, once they buy. It has nothing to do with the cost of a home and applies only once bought. One of the bet things ever to occur in CA.

I will be moving back and paying about $200,000 more than I sold my house for when I moved out this last time (I have moved out 3 times) and maybe comparable and maybe a bit smaller. OK, I understand and that is life. Once I buy it my taxes are covered by prop 13 and I know what to expect and budget for.

[goodie2shoes]

Originally Posted by blam

Why californians didn't start a proposition to abolish state income tax? Seems like it would overwhelmingly win. Is it something that is not allowed to be voted on using the propositions system?

Because state income tax is nothing. It's 13% but with deductions and all that. It's comes down lower than that.

What we really need to get rid of is the 30%+ Federal Income Tax.

I have ZERO issues supporting CA schools, streets, healthcare, social programs etc. etc. with the tiny 13% income tax.

What I have a problem with is the Federal Income Tax that CA pays. Over $400 BILLION. The highest of any states. That money is siphoned out of CA to support the Poor Red States who don't pay any income tax and who are leaching off the System.

You guys can look it up. The Red States are Begging the Govt for money and they in fact receive the MOST Assistant from the Federal Govt.

It's a nice scam they got going on. Pay little income tax, but make up the difference by forcing CA tax payers to bail them out. And I thought THEY DON'T LIKE SOCIALISM?

CA needs to secede. Imagine what we can do with that $400 billion each year.

[SoCal25]

Originally Posted by expatCA

You will offend many Extreme Progressive Liberals who think taxing people is good. Reasonable taxes for good service to EVERYONE is fine. Taxes to benefit a few is .... well I watch my language here.

Actually, even our left wing government in CA will generally say more taxes are bad. More revenue streams that they can call "revenue" instead of taxes is another story. Sure, it comes out the same to the citizens, but it seems to make our Governor feel better to say revenue instead of taxes.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by SoCal25

Actually, even our left wing government in CA will generally say more taxes are bad. More revenue streams that they can call "revenue" instead of taxes is another story. Sure, it comes out the same to the citizens, but it seems to make our Governor feel better to say revenue instead of taxes.

Tonights media coverage interviewed politicians and said with the new super majority California will be able to raise revenues in spite of a Trump Presidency...

It sure sounds like the wheels being greased for higher taxes.

SF has already said the Soda Tax will most likely now end up in the General Fund to cover budget shortfalls...

[Fleet]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Because they're not idiots. The state budget struggles as it is. Prop 13 really did some damage. Eliminating the income tax would be a similar train wreck to Prop 13, if not worse.

I am grateful pop 13 passed. My parents would have had to sell their house because property taxes were about to triple. And don't blame prop 13 for the "budget struggles," the government gets plenty of revenue; a lot of it is mishandled and/or does not go where it's supposed to.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Hopefully everyone will grasp it. It benefits .... everyone who buys a house, once they buy. It has nothing to do with the cost of a home and applies only once bought. One of the bet things ever to occur in CA.

I will be moving back and paying about $200,000 more than I sold my house for when I moved out this last time (I have moved out 3 times) and maybe comparable and maybe a bit smaller. OK, I understand and that is life. Once I buy it my taxes are covered by prop 13 and I know what to expect and budget for.

My tenants also benefit... some have not had increases for years and are on fixed income... I would not be able to do this without Prop 13...

If Prop 13 went away it would seem only fair to do the same for Rent Control...

Lots of new voter approved assessments in my city approved by voters... I have already let my tenants know there will be some increase... we also have mandatory garbage billed to the property owner and like everything else it gets more expensive every year.

[jw2]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Because they're not idiots. The state budget struggles as it is. Prop 13 really did some damage. Eliminating the income tax would be a similar train wreck to Prop 13, if not worse.

I think you are spot on. Prop 13 was not the problem. The CA politicians prior to its passage were the problem. If they were reasonable, there never would have been a Prop 13.

The attitude was basically, "what pet project can I dream up?". Cost was secondary because bank-o-property-owner was always there to fork over the cash. And people forget, corruption was rampant, large property owners would bribe assessors to get low assessments.

Prop 13 put an end to all of that in one fell swoop. California legislators were told to spend what you have not bill what you want. Corruption went away overnight because assessments were set to property prices not what some assessor needed to set it at to make the tax revenue work

Another benefit to homeowners is they can predict what their property taxes will be next year, 5 years from now, 20 years from now, etc. Cost predictions are very important if you are planning to retire here.

I shudder to think what would have happened if Prop 13 had not come to pass. I think something like Illinois. The state would be no better off but debts would be mounting and property taxes through the roof. Property taxes is the one tax legislators like to gouge because there is no escape. Even if you sell, the new buyer will have to pay. If they go too high on income taxes, jobs will leave and their revenue goes down. if sales taxes goes too high, sales go down and revenue goes down. But property tax, there is always someone to pay.

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

California's Democrat/liberal legislature/government has never seen a cent of the peoples' money it didn't want and couldn't spend, especially on others.

Those "others" tend to be part of "the people" as well, that's kinda how it works with state taxes. Government services aren't free, and California isn't Kansas, thank God.

As goodie2shoes points out, it's federal taxes that clobber us.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

They don't have to move out, they just have to pay an equitable tax rate like everyone else. The government shouldn't be picking winners and loser, if two neighbors have the same value home they should pay the same property taxes. Period. If you think that amount is too high then it should be lowered for all parties.

In California everyone pays the SAME tax rate, it's just that you pay it based on what you pay for the house, not what it was worth 50 years ago.

When I first moved to Nevada, that is how property tax worked, your home would be reappraised every few years and your tax would be adjusted to the current value, or what the appraiser decided it was worth. That did not help homeowners, it just generated more revenue for the State

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

In California everyone pays the SAME tax rate, it's just that you pay it based on what you pay for the house, not what it was worth 50 years ago.

When I first moved to Nevada, that is how property tax worked, your home would be reappraised every few years and your tax would be adjusted to the current value, or what the appraiser decided it was worth. That did not help homeowners, it just generated more revenue for the State

Those who oppose Prop 13 believe that ending it will cause a price drop. Nope. Right now the average home cost in OC is over $900,000.00. Why? Because the new homes run over $,000,000.00 and are being bought. IF the average home has a tax increase the poor owner may have to sell it and to ... someone who can afford the tax, and the price will not drop. The middle class will own fewer homes and the rich, foreign buyers and Landlords will do just tine. Their baseless hope is that it would drive prices down and ... it won't, it will just hurt owners.