Why californians didn't start a proposition to abolish state income tax? (Pleasanton: for rent, assessors)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Their house can be worth hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.

Shouldn't they pay their fair share for the services they receive? Why should they be subsidized by their younger neighbors with much lower net worth?

Should not the younger home owners be paying them back for all that their taxes covered in infrastructure and more that the younger ones benefit from?

When people buy today, except for Mello Roos type items, it was paid for by the ones who bought long ago and the new benefit from these . Will you pay your fair share back to them?

Nope the people spoke and they were not just wise but compassionate. Too many today are self centered and a bit jealous.

Find a job, work hard, advance and make your own money and buy what you can. There is no reason others should pay more so you can pay less. Not to mention taxes will not drop home prices, just raise the overall cost. Remember if the prices did drop then .... their taxes would also, so why sell?

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Should not the younger home owners be paying them back for all that their taxes covered in infrastructure and more that the younger ones benefit from?

When people buy today, except for Mello Roos type items, it was paid for by the ones who bought long ago and the new benefit from these . Will you pay your fair share back to them?

Nope the people spoke and they were not just wise but compassionate. Too many today are self centered and a bit jealous.

Find a job, work hard, advance and make your own money and buy what you can. There is no reason others should pay more so you can pay less. Not to mention taxes will not drop home prices, just raise the overall cost. Remember if the prices did drop then .... their taxes would also, so why sell?

All those infrastructure items continue to cost current home owners, nothing is a one time payment. Maybe those people paying lowered property taxes would prefer reduced services, slower police response times, lesser treatment in schools, etc.

Maybe my income tax should be fixed next time I get a raise, would that make you jealous or just make you work harder?

Baby boomers are masters at soaking themselves in government benefits while pushing the bill onto the next generation.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Please understand that under the law everyone in the same neighborhood DOES pay the same Tax Rate...

This has been affirmed by the United States Supreme Court when it considered if Prop 13 violated the equal treatment under the law...

I pay my Statewide 1% tax rate just as my neighbor who has lived in her home 55 years... we also pay the same local taxes...

The rate is the same for everyone.

I understand how prop 13 works, when I say rate I mean total tax bill for the same value of property.


Either
A: Get rid of prop 13 and lower property taxes for all
B: Get rid of property taxes all together.
C: Place lein on property for reduced tax bill that gets paid at next change of ownership.


Prop 13 is not equitable, especially when you vote to increase services while you foot none of the bill that is being picked up by your neighbors.

[Ultrarunner]

Special Assessments are passed on to all Property owners... they are called Parcel Taxes.

My parents have a utility parcel that is 6' x 100' with a nominal value of $900 and they have owned it since 1969.

The property tax under full Prop 13 is $1200... 1/3 more than the property is valued and it has no commercial value.

Under the State Prop 13 the property tax should be under $10... and that part is... the other $1190 property tax consists of voter approved parcel taxes...

I'm very familiar how it all works... I pay the highest property ta for the smallest and oldest home on my block... so following the logic of many... I should be most against it... but I am not.

What makes me cringe are new home owners that are educated and qualified to buy a 600k home say they Don't have Prop 13... which is patently false.

Again... Police do not respond in my city of 400,000+ for property crimes... so much for that theory... plus... Public Safety consumes the lion share of the budget and retirement costs.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

All those infrastructure items continue to cost current home owners, nothing is a one time payment. Maybe those people paying lowered property taxes would prefer reduced services, slower police response times, lesser treatment in schools, etc.

Maybe my income tax should be fixed next time I get a raise, would that make you jealous or just make you work harder?

Baby boomers are masters at soaking themselves in government benefits while pushing the bill onto the next generation.

OK, your are jealous.

Baby Boomers do not need better schools, there kids are grown up, yet they still pay for them through taxes as they do the balance of the infrastructure they use less than the younger ones do.. Yeah soaking in Gov't benefits like Social Security they paid into for about 40 years and will never get that amount back.

Your income tax and everyone's is fixed at a given level and if you get more, you pay more and ... so do boomers still working.

Yep the infrastructure still costs and .... the increase in population shoudl cover it. Why should the long time residents cover what is required for the influx of new residents who... are in many ways better off at their age and income than most Boomers were at the same age.

Yep jealous. You want what they spent a life time getting, but you want it now and you want them to still pay for it, not you.

[HappyinCali]

People can't argue both that Prop 13 is raising house prices and that it is resulting in lower tax collections. It makes no sense. I agree that it is raising house prices. However, I would argue that the overall take would be similar if prop 13 didn't exist.

Collecting 1% on two 500k properties is worse than collecting 1% on a single $1 mn property and 1% on a single $100k house. Currently a lot of people pay artificially low tax and a lot of people pay artificially high taxes. net net, the effect would likely be the same if everyone were paying the correct amount.

Any analysis is almost impossible to be done accurately due to the high number of variables - prices, tax rates, inflation etc.

However prop 13 achieves several goals - it makes the property tax PREDICTABLE! Property tax revenues will never fluctuate meaningfully under Prop 13, because so many properties are locked. Think about how much the state revenues tanked in 2009-11 when income tax receipts dwindled and sales tax also declined. Do you really want to make the third major stream of tax receipts also highly variable? I bet you didn't even consider that little inconvenience.

Secondly, it gives visibility to a largely vulnerable population of society - elderly people. I didn't realize that's such a horrible idea.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by HappyinCali

People can't argue both that Prop 13 is raising house prices and that it is resulting in lower tax collections. It makes no sense. I agree that it is raising house prices. However, I would argue that the overall take would be similar if prop 13 didn't exist.

Collecting 1% on two 500k properties is worse than collecting 1% on a single $1 mn property and 1% on a single $100k house. Currently a lot of people pay artificially low tax and a lot of people pay artificially high taxes. net net, the effect would likely be the same if everyone were paying the correct amount.

Any analysis is almost impossible to be done accurately due to the high number of variables - prices, tax rates, inflation etc.

However prop 13 achieves several goals - it makes the property tax PREDICTABLE! Property tax revenues will never fluctuate meaningfully under Prop 13, because so many properties are locked. Think about how much the state revenues tanked in 2009-11 when income tax receipts dwindled and sales tax also declined. Do you really want to make the third major stream of tax receipts also highly variable? I bet you didn't even consider that little inconvenience.

Secondly, it gives visibility to a largely vulnerable population of society - elderly people. I didn't realize that's such a horrible idea.

You got it. The number with real low property taxes is probably a very small % of the total population of home owners. CA in general is a place where people move every few years and move up in housing. For the few who have lived in the same house for decades, fine, usually it is because of age or health issues and why make things worse.

There are a huge amount of new homes built in the last 30 years as the population has grown by about 12,000,000 and they all live somewhere. Taxes on property are not the problem, it is how the tax money is spent.

[Ultrarunner]

With most things opinions vary...

It does help when the information put out is accurate such as Prop 13 applies to all Real Estate that is taxed.

Once everyone understands this a frank discussion going forward can begin.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

With most things opinions vary...

It does help when the information put out is accurate such as Prop 13 applies to all Real Estate that is taxed.

Once everyone understands this a frank discussion going forward can begin.

And .............. those who don't like it will ................... keep complaining.

What is going forward going to accomplish, other than having fun arguing about it when we are bored.

[Ultrarunner]

For many it is simple ignorance of the how, why and methodology of Prop 13.

Going forward by first establishing we are all in the same boat his change the hearts and minds of many a co-worker and the latest one is a Doctor that just bought a 1.3 million dollar home in Pleasanton CA...

He started by saying he doesn't have Prop 13... so I had to educate him... now he understands.