New study ranks California 14th most dangerous state in the country (crime rates, credit)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Finper

And that’s just what’s reported. Most people don’t report crimes like stolen bikes or car break ins because cops don’t do anything .....it’s a waste of time

Right...lol as if cops ever launched an investigation for a stolen bike or a car break in. People file reports for very minor crimes like those usually because they need it for an insurance claim and it's been that way for the last 30 or 40 years

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by NorCalMan

Let's hear it. And don't quote the Cato Institute or any organization that uses Cato Institute statistics.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I don't think you get to pick sources another person uses, or is that now part of the terms of service?

Been out hiking. Have to get back to this later. But quick laugh: the Cato Institute is a right-leaning Libertarian organization - which ideology typically runs anti-illegal immigration bias and hard right on crime. Very interesting that right-wing identifying NorCalMan doesn’t want data from his own ideological cousins .

But no problem. There are various sources.

[NorCalMan]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I don't think you get to pick sources another person uses, or is that now part of the terms of service?

Because the Cato Institute findings on illegal alien crime rates have been debunked, yet news sources like CNN and the NYT site it's findings in their news because it fits their agenda, and then people like you who don't care to learn the truth on their own believe fake news.

[NorCalMan]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Been out hiking. Have to get back to this later. But quick laugh: the Cato Institute is a right-leaning Libertarian organization - which ideology typically runs anti-illegal immigration bias and hard right on crime. Very interesting that right-wing identifying NorCalMan doesn’t want data from his own ideological cousins .

But no problem. There are various sources.

So quick to make assumptions. Par for the course for you.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by augiedogie

I dont think Ca. crime would be more under reported than La. But it might be underreported more than a low crime state like Iowa. My point is that the crime in general is worse than the statistics would show in comparison to most other states.

Yes, the theft is not a violent crime. But the new law that decriminalizes thefts under 1000 dollars encourages crimonals and will probably attract more criminals to the state. Criminals tend to commit all kinds of crimes and so violent crimes will increase also.

OMG a felony threshold of $950 attracts criminals to California? If that were true then you would think all the crooks would move to Texas where the threshold for felony theft is $2500, dontcha think?

And no, non-violent criminals do not all go on to commit violent crimes, I don't need statistics to prove that just ask a local cop. But if they did, so what? Would you advocate that we execute shoplifters because they might go on to commit a violent crime?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by NorCalMan

Because the Cato Institute findings on illegal alien crime rates have been debunked, yet news sources like CNN and the NYT site it's findings in their news because it fits their agenda, and then people like you who don't care to learn the truth on their own believe fake news.

Actually CATO has debunked the garbage regarding the cost of immigrants coming out of FAIR and Numbers USA

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by veritased

Kevroqs: 1, Tulemutt 0.

I didn't expect you to post on this thread given that Arizona came in 10th in the same study https://247wallst.com/special-report...-america-5/10/

[NorCalMan]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Some of those sources were behind paywalls, but I saw none that that had 2018 data which is what we should be discussing. You can't complain about prop 47 and then use 2014 data to make your case because prop 47 didn't become effective until November 2018. What you should be looking at is 2018 data which is the latest that we have data for, then use prior years as a comparison. Here are some highlights of a report in the Sac Bee analyzing 2018 crime data.



You can dislike prop 47 but you are going to have a tough time making it out to be a failure. For one thing it reduced the prison population which was mandated by SCOTUS. The feds had warned the state that if they didn't reduce the prison population on their own, they would do it for them, using any criteria they chose. And I'm guessing you probably missed this in your research, but after California passed prop 47 four other states reclassified drug possession to a misdemeanor; Alaska, Oklahoma, Utah and Connecticut and the sky has not yet fallen

Putting drug addicts in prison never 'fixed them', and while some District Attorney's claim they were using the threat of a felony to force people arrested for drug possession into treatment, they are for the most part lying. And how successful is treatment, whether coerced or voluntary? NA /AAA have about a 5-10% long term success rate, other programs don't fare much better.

You seem to think that long term incarceration in state prisons reduces crime, but it does just the opposite, everyone sent to prison comes out a felon meaning they are marked for life and will likely have trouble getting a job, renting an apartment or qualifying for low income housing, and to what effect? Because people like you can feel that society got it's "pound of flesh" from some addict who happened to have a little bit of dope in their pocket?

And last but not least, you seem very upset about the threshold for felony theft being raised from $400 to $950 in California. There are only 12 states with a threshold of $750 or less, the rest have felony thresholds far higher. In 2010 South Carolina raised their felony theft threshold from $1,000 to $2,000 and crime went down

I appreciate your response, despite some assumptions and generalizations you made regarding my positions and character. That said, while prop 47 only officially started in 2018, it was passed in 2014 based on public safety realignment in 2011, thus, while the crime statistics I sited might not all fall within the time frame of 2018 to present that you might prefer, crime statistics are crime statistics and can't be ignored.

Even though prop 47 is relatively new, prop 57 and AB 109 have existed longer and as a result once felonious crimes like domestic violence, solicitation to commit murder, human trafficking, and raping an unconscious individual have all been downgraded.

Voters were promised that Proposition 57 would only grant early release to ‘non-violent’ offenders, but the drafters of that initiative never defined which crimes were ‘non-violent.’ As prosecutors have pointed out, that loophole has meant sex traffickers, rapists, abusive spouses and even drive-by shooters have qualified for early release under the state’s "nonviolent" parole process. Do these crimes sound nonviolent to you?

As Prop. 57 paved the way for early release of hardened felons, AB109 amended more than 500 criminal statutes, reduced penalties for parole violations, and shifted thousands of convicted felons from state prison to county jails. Both have been exacerbated by Prop. 47, which makes it almost impossible to lock up serial offenders for drug and property crimes. So we can sit here all day and say crime is down, no it's up. But the truth is, crime has not gone down, it's gone up. "Serious crime" may have gone down but that's only because many of those crimes have been reclassified.

Both of us will have to wait a while longer to get a full picture on prop 47 and it's unintended outcomes.

[NorCalMan]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Actually CATO has debunked the garbage regarding the cost of immigrants coming out of FAIR and Numbers USA

I'm not interested in quoting anything from those two organizations.

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I didn't expect you to post on this thread given that Arizona came in 10th in the same study https://247wallst.com/special-report...-america-5/10/

But their is a perfectly logical explanation for that....

Our other neighbor, Nevada also makes the top 10.

Top states for rape (classified as a violent crime) are Louisiana followed by Alaska.