Hyperion: Tallest Redwood: Heard hide or hair? Scuttlebutt? (San Francisco, Oakland: professionals, store)

[mdvaden]

Originally Posted by MarkGraham

It's easy to throw stones when you hide behind an alias. If you ever met and talked with Mario you would realize you are all wet.
Respectfully,
Mark Graham

Mark ... considering how GOT or FRs earned a bad reputation that can't be dismissed in regard to damaged resources, I think there's a temptation for them to try and praise or pat themselves on the back. If they stay anonymous with no profile, credentials or contact, a possible option is fabricating imaginary people to speak on their behalf. There is no question that fake personalities can dribble bits of self-promotion and praise ... or criticize others.

They could potentially be anybody who can't be verified on any forum, any blog or any Instagram comment. But that's about their only option to build their own praise for their leak. Or to try and brush-aside attention on native plant destruction.

At least we can let a couple redwood habitats speak on their own behalf - before and after

Since some damage is irreversible, the least people can do is let the leakers "own it". Even if they go in hiding, they have to own the fact they leaked discoveries that were not their own finding, and own the damage and trampling they caused to natural resources.

[MarkGraham]

Wow, it looks worse and worse around that tree. I fear something similar is happening in other areas. The redwoods can handle a few bear claw scratches but no way have they evolved to be able to withstand that degree of soil compaction and root exposure. Not with their shallow roots. Not good, not good at all.

[Montclairion]

Originally Posted by MarkGraham

Wow, it looks worse and worse around that tree. I fear something similar is happening in other areas. The redwoods can handle a few bear claw scratches but no way have they evolved to be able to withstand that degree of soil compaction and root exposure. Not with their shallow roots. Not good, not good at all.

Mark, ACWA, the Association of California Water Agencies, reports...

“The water years of 2012-14 stand as California’s driest three consecutive years." And you can can tack another year onto this taking into account the lack of rain through the summer of 2015. So, we're looking at possibly the worst drought on record.

What you are seeing in the pictures is primarily ferns in recession, along with moist shoots receding at the base of that tree, and you can see, the first picture was taken in 2010, prior to the latest drought. It has nothing to do with soil compaction or roots being crushed from human abuse. I pointed this out in an earlier post.

It has absolutely nothing to do with a few hikers milling around as Mario has led you to believe. The exact same type of scenario has occurred in Redwood areas near here, ones I traverse regularly - even in far off the beaten path off-trail locations where there is no traffic whatsoever. And it's not just the ferns receding; the health of some trees has been compromised due to the lack of water. I'd say Mario is correct in stating that the root structures of at least some of the trees have been compromised. But not from a few people padding around. I say this because more trees have toppled over during recent rains than at any time I can remember, and this goes back a ways.

Sadly, the poison oak doesn't seem to have been affected much.

[Montclairion]

Originally Posted by mdvaden

Yes, switching subjects is easy.

Either way, all our activity was legal and moral and above-board.

Yes, just as their's was.

Monty

[MarkGraham]

Originally Posted by Montclairion

Mark, ACWA, the Association of California Water Agencies, reports...

“The water years of 2012-14 stand as California’s driest three consecutive years." And you can can tack another year onto this taking into account the lack of rain through the summer of 2015. So, we're looking at possibly the worst drought on record.

What you are seeing in the pictures is primarily ferns in recession, along with moist shoots receding at the base of that tree, and you can see, the first picture was taken in 2010, prior to the latest drought. It has nothing to do with soil compaction or roots being crushed from human abuse. I pointed this out in an earlier post.

It has absolutely nothing to do with a few hikers milling around as Mario has led you to believe. The exact same type of scenario has occurred in Redwood areas near here, ones I traverse regularly - even in far off the beaten path off-trail locations where there is no traffic whatsoever. And it's not just the ferns receding; the health of some trees has been compromised due to the lack of water. I'd say Mario is correct in stating that the root structures of at least some of the trees have been compromised. But not from a few people padding around. I say this because more trees have toppled over during recent rains than at any time I can remember, and this goes back a ways.

Sadly, the poison oak doesn't seem to have been affected much.

Montclairion not so much drought in Crescent City per weather underground.

Crescent City airport rainfall
Annual "average" is 66 inches
12 months ending April 15, 2016 64.38 inches
12 months ending April 15, 2015 41.08 inches
12 months ending April 15, 2014 27.25 inches
12 months ending April 15, 2013 52.53 inches
12 months ending April 15, 2012 61.56 inches

2016 year to date 28 inches

So a couple dry years in there but not exceptionally so and bracketed by normal precipitation years.

Your overall point on drought impacts seems right but it really doesn't apply in Jedediah Smith Redwoods.
And for GOT it would be much more than a few people around the trees, as that grove is readily accessible.

I agree with your poison oak sentiment.

[Montclairion]

Mark, climate change has a serious effect. It's not just the rainfall, which is down, but temperature is a major factor as well. Also, water coming down from the mountains - extremely important. And fog.

Here's are a couple of links with some data organized by the Save the Redwoods League, a group I've been involved with...

Understanding Climate Change | Save the Redwoods League

http://www.savetheredwoods.org/wp-co...-Abstracts.pdf

More later maybe.

Heading out to a movie.

Monty

[mdvaden]

Originally Posted by Montclairion

Mark ... SNIP ...

What you are seeing in the pictures is primarily ferns in recession, along with moist shoots receding at the base of that tree, and you can see, the first picture was taken in 2010, prior to the latest drought. It has nothing to do with soil compaction or roots being crushed from human abuse. I pointed this out in an earlier post.

It has absolutely nothing to do with a few hikers milling around as Mario has led you to believe.

Mark and others, maybe its good that he wrote that diatribe. It opened a door to his inner self, but did not open a door to the truth about the redwood tree shown or the plants that vanished around it.

In Redwood National and State Parks, ferns did not selectively vanish from drought only in the spots people were trampling. And drought is not the cause, otherwise scores of ferns elsewhere in the area would be gone too. But that's not the case. Also, the Save the Redwoods links do not relate to this particular situation.

There was ample moisture in the north parks, and some redwoods grew height as much in one single year recently, as in four pre-drought years combined. Let alone the relatively good health of ferns and sorrel evident the past couple years in the north. The photo below shows the good condition of a redwood the past couple years in the north parks. That's how Screaming Titans looked before leaks triggered so much tramping.

I learned that the cameras placed in that grove recorded as many as 50 people per day. And virtually everybody goes to that tree for photos. That's not a few people, but a steady stream.

Originally Posted by MarkGraham

So a couple dry years in there but not exceptionally so.

Mark, what you wrote fits.

The image is typical of the north parks as many hikers have seen in those north parks. The late spring to autumn may have been exceptionally dry for precipitation, but not dry enough to eradicate the ferns or cause big issues to the redwoods.

[mdvaden]

Here's another recent image from the north Redwood National and State Parks.

These redwood's own testimonial conveyed through photos shows how well trees and ferns flourished where people were not trampling them like around Screaming Titans.

[Montclairion]

Originally Posted by mdvaden

Also, the Save the Redwoods links do not relate to this particular situation.

Mario, the entire area has been affected by average heat increasing several degrees, diminished rainfall, lack of fog and drastic cuts in river flow volumes. The mountains have had virtually no snow pack, and this is an important factor for the habitats below. This is documented and detailed in some of the League's material and they've been following and concerned about this scenario for years.

You take a picture before the draught when everything is honky-dory and then you take one years later in the middle of the worst draught in the state's history and claim some hikers knocked down the ferns. And why - because you're no longer the keeper of the secrets. You can't sprinkle your fairy dust of glittering clues which you were sort of stingy with anyway, unless, of course, they were true believers. Do you believe?

If you look carefully you can see several half-dead ferns hanging off the tree in your picture. Did the same hikers you refer to walk vertically up the trunk of the tree and kick out the ferns that were 15 feet above the ground? Or maybe you think they climbed up and removed the ferns for souvenirs - potted them in planters around their houses? Or maybe they sprayed some pesticide on them because they thought the ferns were eating away at the tree. Yes, maybe that's it; the ferns were parasitic.

Your own pictures show how little sense your own story makes. I know you'd like them to for the benefit of your flock and your ego, but as I mentioned on several occasions - ferns recede during draught and return after several years of cooler, wetter weather.

You are supposed to be the resident expert here. Maybe it's time for some refresher classes. Or perhaps I'm all wet and it's just that your camera is malfunctioning.

Monty

[Montclairion]

One thing I should add is that the season before last I went up to those parts with my son and Redwood country was dry and over 100 degrees. We camped in one of the parks and it was so hot we couldn't sleep. And the next day we did some hiking, checking out some of the big trees and it was very hot and it was dry and what was supposed to be the major river running through those parts was but a slow moving stream at best.

We decided to head up to higher country and make our way up to the Trinities and we recorded temps on the road after leaving the park of over 115 degrees. The tiny towns up there along the way were all but deserted, residents all trying to cool themselves in the stream of a river.

I used to have a lot of the Boston ferns in my house and to keep them happy they had to be cool and I had to in addition to watering them, mist them every day or they'd dry up - literally in a matter of days if it was too warm. That's how it is with ferns.