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Just because you don't agree w/ notmeofficer doesn't mean h/she's a blind sheep.
To be completely fair, disagreement on this topic is obvious and there are arguments both sides worth considering.
But, in the case of nmo, to read his/her rants is to know that his/her viewpoints are founded on little, if any whatsoever, rational thinking. Pure knee-jerk regurgitation of non-syllogistic, fear-mongering propaganda.
That cleared off the table, I would remind all level-headed opponents and proponents both, that:
- Sugar is addictive, and destructive - when over consumed.
- Caffeine is addictive, and destructive - when over consumed.
- Nicotine is addictive, and destructive - when over consumed.
- Alcohol is addictive, and destructive - when over consumed.
- Starchy carbohydrates are addictive, and destructive - when over consumed.
- Exercise is addictive, and destructive - when over consumed.
- Excessive worry and anxiety is addictive, and destructive - when over indulged.
- Why, even sex is addictive, and destructive - when over consumed. Much as I hate to admit it
I can make the above list very long indeed. But you all get the point.
Credible studies of substance abuse, be it alcohol or drugs, all pretty much conclude that problem use / addiction, to the point of self-destructiveness, occurs on average in about 10% of users.
So, the productive question isn't really whether various things are addictive or destructive - it's whether criminalizing the use of various substances is worth the social costs and impositions upon free choice, all to protect a narrow slice of humanity from falling prey to their own individual weak element.
Or would we be better served by applying focus and funds toward assisting that minority with their struggle?
But hey, if ranting like a babbling lunatic, as a certain poster here is wont to do (not you CA4), knock yo'sef out, bro. Fun to watch.
Tule ....
You continue to chase every thread I make around the internet making it personal... you profess the use of drugs.. I profess sobriety.. and my posts clearly state sounds reasons for my decisions. You and tbose like you continue to be enthralled with your illegal drug acquisitions and use... and its this type of screwed up thinking that exacerbates the drug problems in our country... hanging off a door gun m60 high on any drug does not make a soldier more skilled does it? You may have done it.. I don't know.. but you wouldn't be a 1000 meters from me if you did
I work hard within the bounds of legality to reduce drugs in my community ...you sit arrogantly on your boat enjoying a bowl not seeing any harm you do to the world....
As I worked hard on the yes on a campaign successfully battling back the well funded drug purveyors today we meet to work on the what's next strategy ..
How to defend the lawsuit the druggies will certainly bring because of their criminal wealth...enforcement strategies.. removing illegal gardens and those small gardens where people bring themselves under the purview of our office... community outreach for those who want or need help getting off drugs while directing those who continue to want to use them how to do so legally...
That's the difference between you and me... always will be.. I serve with honor... you dishonor yourself with your behavior... a visit to a good va doc who will talk about it with you and not snow you with pharna might help...
This goes for all persons who feel the need of escapism into chemical dependency...pick your drug
Have a nice day sir....
Tule ....
You continue to chase every thread I make around the internet making it personal... you profess the use of drugs.. I profess sobriety.. and my posts clearly state sounds reasons for my decisions. You and tbose like you continue to be enthralled with your illegal drug acquisitions and use... and its this type of screwed up thinking that exacerbates the drug problems in our country... hanging off a door gun m60 high on any drug does not make a soldier more skilled does it? You may have done it.. I don't know.. but you wouldn't be a 1000 meters from me if you did
I work hard within the bounds of legality to reduce drugs in my community ...you sit arrogantly on your boat enjoying a bowl not seeing any harm you do to the world....
As I worked hard on the yes on a campaign successfully battling back the well funded drug purveyors today we meet to work on the what's next strategy ..
How to defend the lawsuit the druggies will certainly bring because of their criminal wealth...enforcement strategies.. removing illegal gardens and those small gardens where people bring themselves under the purview of our office... community outreach for those who want or need help getting off drugs while directing those who continue to want to use them how to do so legally...
That's the difference between you and me... always will be.. I serve with honor... you dishonor yourself with your behavior... a visit to a good va doc who will talk about it with you and not snow you with pharna might help...
This goes for all persons who feel the need of escapism into chemical dependency...pick your drug
Have a nice day sir....
And this is why the war on drugs has gone nowhere.
The best approach to solving a problem is to first understand the problem.
First understand the effects of drugs on its users and those around them. Then develop possible steps to solving the issue.
The only reason drugs have value on a black market is because it is illegal!! These laws create drug kingpins.
It costs a hell of a lot to enforce marijuana laws. It also forces marijuana users to go through the black market bumping elbows with hard drugs.
The insignificant negative effects of marijuana are outweighed by the cost of enforcement ( law enforcement, judges, attorneys)
Hard drugs should be illegal because of the horrendous negative externalities they carry.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,136,325 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
Tule ....
You continue to chase every thread I make around the internet making it personal... you profess the use of drugs.. I profess sobriety.. and my posts clearly state sounds reasons for my decisions. You and tbose like you continue to be enthralled with your illegal drug acquisitions and use... and its this type of screwed up thinking that exacerbates the drug problems in our country... hanging off a door gun m60 high on any drug does not make a soldier more skilled does it? You may have done it.. I don't know.. but you wouldn't be a 1000 meters from me if you did
I work hard within the bounds of legality to reduce drugs in my community ...you sit arrogantly on your boat enjoying a bowl not seeing any harm you do to the world....
As I worked hard on the yes on a campaign successfully battling back the well funded drug purveyors today we meet to work on the what's next strategy ..
How to defend the lawsuit the druggies will certainly bring because of their criminal wealth...enforcement strategies.. removing illegal gardens and those small gardens where people bring themselves under the purview of our office... community outreach for those who want or need help getting off drugs while directing those who continue to want to use them how to do so legally...
That's the difference between you and me... always will be.. I serve with honor... you dishonor yourself with your behavior... a visit to a good va doc who will talk about it with you and not snow you with pharna might help...
This goes for all persons who feel the need of escapism into chemical dependency...pick your drug
Have a nice day sir....
So, if we accept that you are, in fact, a law enforcement officer in California (I still have my doubts, which I am willing to suspend for the sake of this conversation),why do you seem to take the federal line, rather than the one prescribed by your employer? If legality is your hang up, the State of California has a voter-approved position on marijuana. Most municipalities, including the one in which I reside, have an even more liberal approach to this one controlled substance, officially de-prioritizing marijuana posession among their police forces. In other words, California has more important things to worry about...to the point that it has made not worrying too much about pot official policy.
So, the legal answer is clear in California. Do you have a problem with people who have a valid recommendation from a doctor obtaining marijuana in a legal dispensary?
Personally... or professionally?
I am entitled to my personal beliefs.. I dislike all drugs in any form and any manner that alter the consciousness
Professionally...I'm required to follow the law... my personal beliefs get put on the shelf
Do I have a problem with a valid recommendation?
Personally... sure.. I see the gross abuse
Professionally ... nope... but its not a get out of jail free card ... obvious transportation sale growing and processing will still get you arrested
In a meeting today directly on marijuana enforcement with the sheriff he stated it very clearly to all of us and I subscribe to personally
We aren't going after Granny 12..what we nickname the maximum amount here in shasta county a person can grow indoors...we have no more outdoor grows.period...
We were also given policy on what to do when we are at a location in response to a call for service and dope is being grown... warn and cite.. 30 days to remove.. resource code officer returns in thirty.. readvise.. return in 30 and pull...
If its a commercial grow... and we use the rough amount of 100 plants.. that results in an arrest for felony cultivation
We also were advised by county council that Shasta county stands ready to fight the dopers for any lawsuit they bring forth. Finally the B.O.S. said... Shasta county is no longer open to growers... we are already seeing dope growing properties going up for sale
In my case the public has spoken... you may not like it but the druggies made a tactical error by getting it on the ballot ... the result... no outdoor grows has been upheld solidly by the supremes several times here in California
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,136,325 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
Personally... or professionally?
I am entitled to my personal beliefs.. I dislike all drugs in any form and any manner that alter the consciousness
Professionally...I'm required to follow the law... my personal beliefs get put on the shelf
Do I have a problem with a valid recommendation?
Personally... sure.. I see the gross abuse
Professionally ... nope... but its not a get out of jail free card ... obvious transportation sale growing and processing will still get you arrested
In a meeting today directly on marijuana enforcement with the sheriff he stated it very clearly to all of us and I subscribe to personally
We aren't going after Granny 12..what we nickname the maximum amount here in shasta county a person can grow indoors...we have no more outdoor grows.period...
We were also given policy on what to do when we are at a location in response to a call for service and dope is being grown... warn and cite.. 30 days to remove.. resource code officer returns in thirty.. readvise.. return in 30 and pull...
If its a commercial grow... and we use the rough amount of 100 plants.. that results in an arrest for felony cultivation
We also were advised by county council that Shasta county stands ready to fight the dopers for any lawsuit they bring forth. Finally the B.O.S. said... Shasta county is no longer open to growers... we are already seeing dope growing properties going up for sale
In my case the public has spoken... you may not like it but the druggies made a tactical error by getting it on the ballot ... the result... no outdoor grows has been upheld solidly by the supremes several times here in California
I don't think any advocates of current policy would have any problems with the above post. Thank you for a measured response. I believe I have a better understanding of where you are coming from.
Your posts of your personal position while representing yourself as a law enforcement officer is where you went off the rails and drew negative attention. I agree that you are entitled to your personal viewpoints, but you are entitled to them as a civilian. When you represent them as an officer of the law, you are presuming to enforce a position contrary to the rule of law.
I understand that you are capable of professionally separating the two on the job. Just be aware that, while you are not required to do so on a forum like this, by representing yourself as law enforcement, you should expect to be held to a higher standard by the people to whom you are addressing. They are, in fact, the same people you are sworn to protect and serve to the letter of the laws that they write with their votes. I'm sure you are also aware that the laws, ordinances, attitudes and ideas of rural Shasta County are not necessarily reflected across all of California. Care should be taken not to represent your personal viewpoints as official outside your own purview, when discussing laws and enforcement of them in this statewide forum.
No policeman can represent any department in any forum or public venue unless they have the specific duty as public information officer... that is self evident
When I relay stories of enforcement they are in the public domain
Thank you for instructing me as to what I can say personally vs professionally
Actually the attitudes about marijuana being out of control are gaining ground throughout California and nationwide... I'm sure you are aware that many cities in California have experienced a push back from the citizens...which is why we see dispensaries shuttered and counties such as sac and Fresno banning or severely reducing marijuana growing.
There is also some misconception that it is a free for all in Colorado ...it isn't.. dispensaries and growing are only allowed in a couple of counties
City dwellers that use mj and call it benign seperate themselves from the harm they do because to actually see the damage done would require some modicum of personal responsibility... which drug use by its very nature short circuits.
There were a number of us who worked directly on the measure a campaign.. and a number of counties that had similar ballot measures.. tehama for example.. in each case the voters spoke loudly and solid conservative measures passed... in the case of tehama the more restrictive of the two
Nobody.. and I mean nobody including policemen care about a persons 12 stinky plants grown for their personal consumption..although I have demonstratd that means upwards of 16000 joints.. which is impossible for one person to use.per year unless they were stoned out of their minds 24/7... so the I need my medicine argument is a total smokescreen for cultivation. One popular grower here has already stated he won't stop but will spread out his grows now and has stated getting one raided is just the cost of business. If what what we hear is accurate a number of growers will stop by default because they already have serious building code violations.. unpermitted dwellings illegal or non existent sewers or in many cases none so they don't want the county coming at all to their lands. At the meeting yesterday a number of citizens also complained of the regular and on going violence and intimidation that marijuana has brought to their communities ... from the robberies and murders to the honey oil fires and their destruction of innocent peoples lives ... harmless drug...bunk...we also heard from county mental health and social services about the direct and profound effects upon our county... its not pretty
Many suggestions were made by the public including more reserve deputies and civilian volunteer corps to contract public resources officers to assist with compliance to one novel suggestion..private eradication crews such as have been used in Humboldt county by timber and forest companies ...the growers call them marijuana mercs.... which I hadnt heard of before. Public health also spoke reducing vaping and balmng by students in class ( using vape pens and mj infused lip balm) harmless... total crap
We are already preparing for 2016... the liberal ninth courts have already upheld the rights of local jurisdictions to restrict or ban mj in their communities regardless of prop 215
Last edited by notmeofficer; 12-05-2014 at 05:31 AM..
No policeman can represent any department in any forum or public venue unless they have the specific duty as public information officer... that is self evident
When I relay stories of enforcement they are in the public domain
Thank you for instructing me as to what I can say personally vs professionally
Actually the attitudes about marijuana being out of control are gaining ground throughout California and nationwide... I'm sure you are aware that many cities in California have experienced a push back from the citizens...which is why we see dispensaries shuttered and counties such as sac and Fresno banning or severely reducing marijuana growing.
There is also some misconception that it is a free for all in Colorado ...it isn't.. dispensaries and growing are only allowed in a couple of counties
City dwellers that use mj and call it benign seperate themselves from the harm they do because to actually see the damage done would require some modicum of personal responsibility... which drug use by its very nature short circuits.
There were a number of us who worked directly on the measure a campaign.. and a number of counties that had similar ballot measures.. tehama for example.. in each case the voters spoke loudly and solid conservative measures passed... in the case of tehama the more restrictive of the two
Nobody.. and I mean nobody including policemen care about a persons 12 stinky plants grown for their personal consumption..although I have demonstratd that means upwards of 16000 joints.. which is impossible for one person to use.per year unless they were stoned out of their minds 24/7... so the I need my medicine argument is a total smokescreen for cultivation. One popular grower here has already stated he won't stop but will spread out his grows now and has stated getting one raided is just the cost of business. If what what we hear is accurate a number of growers will stop by default because they already have serious building code violations.. unpermitted dwellings illegal or non existent sewers or in many cases none so they don't want the county coming at all to their lands. At the meeting yesterday a number of citizens also complained of the regular and on going violence and intimidation that marijuana has brought to their communities ... from the robberies and murders to the honey oil fires and their destruction of innocent peoples lives ... harmless drug...bunk...we also heard from county mental health and social services about the direct and profound effects upon our county... its not pretty
Many suggestions were made by the public including more reserve deputies and civilian volunteer corps to contract public resources officers to assist with compliance to one novel suggestion..private eradication crews such as have been used in Humboldt county by timber and forest companies ...the growers call them marijuana mercs.... which I hadnt heard of before. Public health also spoke reducing vaping and balmng by students in class ( using vape pens and mj infused lip balm) harmless... total crap
We are already preparing for 2016... the liberal ninth courts have already upheld the rights of local jurisdictions to restrict or ban mj in their communities regardless of prop 215
Banning marijuana in specific localities is more efficient than banning marijuana in the entire state.
The marijuana medication reason is applicable to a very small population. It comes down to money.
More worth it to deal with a few dispensary related crimes rather than make it entirely illegal.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,136,325 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
No policeman can represent any department in any forum or public venue unless they have the specific duty as public information officer... that is self evident
When I relay stories of enforcement they are in the public domain
Thank you for instructing me as to what I can say personally vs professionally
Actually the attitudes about marijuana being out of control are gaining ground throughout California and nationwide... I'm sure you are aware that many cities in California have experienced a push back from the citizens...which is why we see dispensaries shuttered and counties such as sac and Fresno banning or severely reducing marijuana growing.
There is also some misconception that it is a free for all in Colorado ...it isn't.. dispensaries and growing are only allowed in a couple of counties
City dwellers that use mj and call it benign seperate themselves from the harm they do because to actually see the damage done would require some modicum of personal responsibility... which drug use by its very nature short circuits.
There were a number of us who worked directly on the measure a campaign.. and a number of counties that had similar ballot measures.. tehama for example.. in each case the voters spoke loudly and solid conservative measures passed... in the case of tehama the more restrictive of the two
Nobody.. and I mean nobody including policemen care about a persons 12 stinky plants grown for their personal consumption..although I have demonstratd that means upwards of 16000 joints.. which is impossible for one person to use.per year unless they were stoned out of their minds 24/7... so the I need my medicine argument is a total smokescreen for cultivation. One popular grower here has already stated he won't stop but will spread out his grows now and has stated getting one raided is just the cost of business. If what what we hear is accurate a number of growers will stop by default because they already have serious building code violations.. unpermitted dwellings illegal or non existent sewers or in many cases none so they don't want the county coming at all to their lands. At the meeting yesterday a number of citizens also complained of the regular and on going violence and intimidation that marijuana has brought to their communities ... from the robberies and murders to the honey oil fires and their destruction of innocent peoples lives ... harmless drug...bunk...we also heard from county mental health and social services about the direct and profound effects upon our county... its not pretty
Many suggestions were made by the public including more reserve deputies and civilian volunteer corps to contract public resources officers to assist with compliance to one novel suggestion..private eradication crews such as have been used in Humboldt county by timber and forest companies ...the growers call them marijuana mercs.... which I hadnt heard of before. Public health also spoke reducing vaping and balmng by students in class ( using vape pens and mj infused lip balm) harmless... total crap
We are already preparing for 2016... the liberal ninth courts have already upheld the rights of local jurisdictions to restrict or ban mj in their communities regardless of prop 215
For clarity, I wasn't instructing you as to what you could say, I was explaining how you should expect to be received when you wrote what you did.
Surely you also recognize that the violence and trouble associated with "eradication" would be eliminated by legitimization of commercial grows and it's the absurd notion of attempting enforcement against the will of state law that causes the conflict in the first place. Whether or not you personally agree with the limits of the law is immaterial--they are set to represent the overriding spirit of the law.
In other words, allowing growing enough pot for 16000 joints, allowing recommendations for such liberal diagnosis as "Insomnia", de-prioritization by municipal police forces, etc., represents a community's reasonable approach limited "commercial" distribution through dispensaries. It is slightly more restrictive than alcohol on the supply side and slightly less restrictive than alcohol on the production side, because marijuana is easier for individuals to produce. That is the spirit of the California law. It may not represent Shasta's position.
In Shasta, you are primarily on the production side. Many more voters and policy makers exist on the supply side. You should expect the will of the supply side to set the policy, now that marijuana has rightly been noted as an exception the "war on drugs". There is no argument against it that is any more salient than arguments against alcohol.
Most of the conflict you point out is the result of overzealous interpretation and enforcement of laws that are on their way out.
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